Ok, first I'm not breeding any dogs before anyone panics lol. I have a question that is driving me nuts.....I have seen on a few sites that breeding chocolates to yellows is not desirable but it never says exactly why. I understand the colors that might come out of this breeding (I think lol, will I ever actually understand the coat color genetics fully?) but can't seem to find anything detrimental or not desired for the offspring. Anyone care to answer?
Someone else will have a better answer, but it's not really the coat color that is the issue. But there's a relatively high probability of getting yellows without black pigment (NBP, sometimes referred to as "Dudley", though this may not be the completely correct usage of the term). The NBP is considered a fault in yellows for showing.
There are a number of people on this board who have dudleys, myself included. They're sweet dogs, like any lab, but would not show in conformation.
Toby and Chamois say: GO STEELERS!
Ah, now that makes sense. I've seen quite a few dudleys on the boards and yes they are very cute but I understand breeding to achieve the look described in the standard.
The simple answer is that people think breeding a chocolate to a yellow will have a higher chance of producing a Dudley. That has been perpetuated since before we realized how the genes work and now there are DNA tests that are cheap that tell us what are dogs carry.Ok, first I'm not breeding any dogs before anyone panics lol. I have a question that is driving me nuts.....I have seen on a few sites that breeding chocolates to yellows is not desirable but it never says exactly why. I understand the colors that might come out of this breeding (I think lol, will I ever actually understand the coat color genetics fully?) but can't seem to find anything detrimental or not desired for the offspring. Anyone care to answer?
More often than not breeding a chocolate to a yellow will produce all black puppies. Only when the chocolate carries yellow AND the yellow carries chocolate will you get a Dudley. You can produce a Dudley when you breed a black to a black and a yellow to a black and many other combinations. Both parents have to either be or carry BOTH chocolate and yellow.
A Dudley has no health issues. They are simply have chocolate skin with a yellow coat.
And the "only problem" with a dudley is that it is not preferred in the show ring. I actually don't think it counts as a DQ because the standard says "LACK OF COLORATION" and a dudley is a liver pigmented yellow.
There are many dudleys out in the field as those breeders are very keen on replicating drive.
Does anyone know if a dudley has ever been shown with any success? Or do they usually just get placed in pet homes?
If you look at most of the dudleys on this forum, they are just that...without pigment (pink nosed). I've heard of true chocolate pigmented yellows showing and not being excused from the ring, but haven't seen it myself. My boy produced two chocolate pigmented yellows in the litter he sired for a servie dog org...they were cute little boogers
Really? Shows my ignorance. I'm honestly not being smart-a$$ed or doubting here, Sharon, I know you have way, way more experience with labs than I ever will (for starters, I never intend to breed puppies, ever!). I guess I just fell into the same assumption that has been perpetuated for a long time - that black is dominant, so I probably way oversimplified. I'll admit, I've looked at a number of websites with the possible color combinations, but never really got too into the details. Fascinating.Originally Posted by WigWag
Interestingly enough, Toby (my choco boy) had parents who were both chocolates. The litter was 6 chocolates and one dudley. Chamois (my rescue dudley girl who truly has a pink, not liver, nose) had a black lab mother, we're not sure what the father was, other than almost certainly all-lab also. The litter (that was rescued) was one yellow with black pigmentation, one chocolate, one dudley, and two blacks. Something for everyone, I guess. But maybe that's why I just went with the myth as perpetuated. Hmmm.
Anyway, I love my dudley girl at least as much as my choco boy. Neither would ever be able to compete in conformation, but that's not why I have or love them. They're both healthy and wonderful.
To the OP, thanks for bringing this up - and for clarifying that you're not interested in breeding! ;D This is educational and a good discussion.
Toby and Chamois say: GO STEELERS!
My Dudley Bob could win the goofiest dog show. I bought him a frisbee that has a big hole in the middle. He likes to catch it and flip it up over his nose and run around the yard with it practically covering his eyes.
You got part of it Black IS dominant to chocolate. You can think of every labrador as black or chocolate (always shown through the pigment). Yellow is a different gene which is basically a masking gene for coat color...if the gene is turned "on" (in the homozygous recessive form) then the dog has a yellow coat, otherwise the pigment color shows through in coat color as well.Originally Posted by TobysTrix
This is interesting, but I'm puzzled about my lab's littermates. Dad was yellow, mom was chocolate, and all were chocolate except Corby, who is black. How does that happen, if black is dominent?