yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?
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Thread: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

  1. #1
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    Defaultyellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    I was o the net trying to find some info on silver labs. I think they look gorgeous but had never heard about them before.
    So I hit google and saw also charcoal and red labs coming up.
    What's going on?

    They all look very nice but I thought there were only 3 colors? ???

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  3. #2
    Trickster's Avatar
    Trickster is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/

    Most "silver Labs" are a cross between a Weimaraner and a Lab. When you look at a picture of a so called "silver Lab" those Weimaraner ears are unmistakable.

    There are only three true colours --black, yellow and chocolate. There are colour variations of both yellow and chocolate. Yellow Labs can range from an almost white cream to a deep, dark fox red. Chocolates can be lighter or darker in colour. Blacks are just black.

  4. #3
    JacobAlthea&Tatum is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    There are three colors of labs, but many different variations in coat shade. For example, you'll see Fox Red labs, but they are really yellow labs with a deeper colored coat. Some breeders will market "white" labs, but, again, they are just a really light shade of yellow.

    Much of this color variation can be bred, and less-than-scrupulous breeders do this to create a distinguishable product that people will pay extra money for. They often bill them as "designer labs." These breeders are not breeding to improve the breed as much as just creating a product that people will pay extra for, because they are "unique" or "special."

    I'm Jenn. Keeper of two labs in my home and one forever in my heart.

    Throw the ball, damn it!

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  6. #4
    WigWag Guest

    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    Fox red is a shade of yellow and is acceptable under the standard the world over. Yellows actually started out fairly dark (golden) color and have only lightened up in the past 30 years.

    Silver and charcoal (blue) Labradors are only seen here in the U.S. and are dilute versions of chocolate and black. These dogs simply have dilute genes present which is not normally seen in the general population. Other breeds have dilute colors such as the Doberman. A red Doberman is like our chocolate and a black and tan is like our black. The dilute versions are fawn and blue - the color of the coat is exactly the same as silver and charcoal Labradors. Weimeraners are dilute livers (liver = chocolate) as well and blue Weims can and do exist which is a dilute black.

    People who breed silvers and now blues are doing so to make money. They don't do health clearances and they lie stating outrageous claims like the AKC will change the standard and that their dogs have DNA testing done. These are bald face lies. Here is the official statement from the folks that write the standard for AKC:
    http://www.thelabradorclub.com/library/silver.html

    Where did silvers originate? Well through my research I have found that all silvers can be traced back to two kennels that bred them in the 70's - Beaver Creek and Crist Culo. Both of these breeders stumbled on the color when breeding field dogs from Kellogg lines. Kellogg kennels bred both Labradors and Weimeraners in the 20's and 30's and a long time breeder remembers them running ads in Gun Dog magazine in the 50's for blue Labradors. So many of the dogs being bred have nothing but AKC Labradors in their pedigrees since those litter way back when were registered as Labradors. I do also suspect that many "silver breeders" are simply breeding Labs to Weims to generate the color.




  7. #5
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trickster
    http://www.geocities.com/silverlabs1/

    Most "silver Labs" are a cross between a Weimaraner and a Lab. When you look at a picture of a so called "silver Lab" those Weimaraner ears are unmistakable.

    There are only three true colours --black, yellow and chocolate. There are colour variations of both yellow and chocolate. Yellow Labs can range from an almost white cream to a deep, dark fox red. Chocolates can be lighter or darker in colour. Blacks are just black.

    ditto

  8. #6
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    Wow thanks! I still think the charcoal/silvers look very special but would probably never have one for the reasons you mention.

    Thanks for all the info!

  9. #7
    Kwinon is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trickster
    Blacks are just black.
    Hey! Why should Yellows & Chocolates get all the variety?
    Blacks come in Coal, Ebony, and Licorice.
    And as soon as Mom writes the documentation to support this, she'll post the link.
    Respectfully,
    Ruffy (A Licorice)
    * :P

  10. #8
    AngusFangus is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?



    Connie and "The Boys":
    Angus, Yellow Lab, CGC, RE, CD
    Simon, d.b.a. Flat Coated Retriever, CGC, RE, CD

    Gone ahead, but forever in my heart:
    Crash, Pit Bull x Rottweiler x Golden Retriever

  11. #9
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    I've loved labs for years and have no desire whatsoever to deviate from the standard. I have recently been getting into conformation shows with the regular colored dogs I do have and I'm trying to start a breeding program eventually with the best stock available.

    I recently added silver male to the family that I purchased after doing tons of research. *Before anyone yells at me currently I do not plan to include him in breeding stock. *Actually the breeding program is way down the road for me, I really love dogs and would love to be involved in making the breed better but I am in no hurry to do so since I want to do things right. *I will say that my silver dog isn't really a silver color at all, it is hard to explain with pictures and computer monitors but it is more of a light grayish-brown/slate color. *He recently visited the neighbor next door....and although he certainly isn't the darker brown that most chocolates are my neighbor called me to tell me that she had my "chocolate labrador". *I chuckled a little since she knew I got a dog but hadn't seen him yet and I never told her what breed I was getting.

    Actually, many people give him a second look trying to figure out what kind of dog he is. *He has perfect labrador conformation and I am certain he would be a champion if he weren't the silver/sledge or whatever color you would prefer to call it. *Don't get me wrong, they know he is a lab but they are confused about the coat color and give him a double take. *I took him to a CERF clinic the other day and they were all totally amazed with how beautiful he is. *I feel almost guilty because he is by far my best looking dog (in my eyes) and I've always been partial to blacks because the lab enthusiasts I grew up around though the yellows and chocolates were kinda "fishy" and thought the only true lab was a black one lol.

    Anyway, I am writing this to let people know out there that some of the silver kennels are very good and dedicated to the lab standard instead of just coat color. *My mentor has been breeding labs for 30 years and is a responsible breeder, shows her dogs, etc and has started to breed silvers in the last few years. *All dogs in her kennels have excellent temperments, *correct conformation, OFA clearances, CERF, etc before she would consider breeding them.

    So, you are probably asking yourself, "Why does this girl who says she wants to better the breed and ahere to the standard even consider silver labradors?". *Well, I have done a ton of research and I've heard everything from they are Weim mixes to a genetic mixup that should be elminated from the breeding pool.

    I have a real problem with the Weim mix theory, since I will admit I have seen a fair amount of inbreeding in the pedigrees going back into the pedigrees quite a few generations ago. *Obviously the inbreeding is not desirable, so if you were truly going to mix the Weim and your bitch why would you list the sire as a close relative? If you were going to falsely declare the sire wouldn't you choose a sire that wasn't closely related? *I've seen many claims from the anti-silver groups stating that early on to produce the silvers there was a lot of inbreeding going on, this is probably one of the few things I would agree with. *I do not know much about linebreeding, outcrossing etc but I have seen quite a few pedigrees on very popular lab kennels' sites (regular colors) where the sire and dam of a litter both have the same dog only a generation or two behind them. *Correct me if I am wrong, but don't some experienced breeders do this?

    Also, the color of a Weim and the color of my silver dog are very different (curiousity killed me and I did find someone with a very nice Weim to compare him to). *He doesn't look anything like a Weim, it would be like comparing a black great dane to a black lab and the black colors would be a much better match lol. *He definitely is a great example of a standard lab, with the exception to his coat color.

    Once again, correct me if I am wrong but hasn't there been rough roads for the yellow and chocolate labs to be accepted? *I don't want to create an entire new color in the standard.......but with the variation accepted for yellow labs (everything from white to dark fox red) why is a wide variety of chocolate so ill-accepted in the lab community? *Most breeds are progressive and the "big blocky" cheeky heads some breeders aim for and win conformation titles with are on the extreme of the room for interpretation in the standard. *Nobody cries that they must have had a Rott in there bloodlines and then bred to look like a lab.

    Many breeds accept new colors, including the poodles. All of the sudden we have apricot and other colors popping up and being accepted into the show ring. *I would understand if it were entirely a new color, but it truly is a lighter colored chocolate. *I'm sure that a good deal of the apprehension is deserved, since maketing them as silver isn't the best description of them........but it isn't anymore misleading than marketing the white(light cream) or fox-red (still a yellow, right?).

    I feel the breed would be better served by allowing these dogs into the show ring so experienced judges could determine breeding stock intead of leaving it up to the backyard breeders and mass producing kennels to corner the "silver market" and exploit these dogs as rare. *Wouldn't suggesting that they adhere to the standard of showing, ect make more sense than refusing to let a registered AKC labrador into the showring? *If this lighter color isn't given a chance then the breeders will never have to answer to not having any champions in their bloodlines, you can't accomplish the impossible right?

    Once again, I'm not trying to change the standard to make any changes to labs......I love them just the way they are. *I'm just saying that I feel many lab enthusiasts are being clouded with bad information and being led to believe these dogs are really "silver" and I can't blame them for being shocked at the thoughts of a "silver" labrador. *It sounds like someone took our favorite black girl and covered her with aluminum foil lol .

    Please don't attack my opinions, because I am not trying to convince anyone and I'm here to learn as much or more than I am here to educate (bad educator because I don't know anything lol). *I have 6 labs.......3 blacks, 1 yellow, 1 chocolate, and one silver. *I am currently starting to show one of the blacks and the chocolate and I believe both should finish without any problems.

    I also have heard much talk about secrecy in the pedigrees and that there are no silver dogs that have OFA clearances etc. *I have my boys pedigree and the past 3 generations have OFA clearances, etc. *I would imagine they can not find silver dogs with OFA clearances since on the pedigree all dogs are listed as chocolates.

    I welcome all intelligent conversation and thanks for listening to me!!

  12. #10
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    DefaultRe: yellow, black, chocolate, silver, charcoal, and red! what's going on?

    No attack here, but lets see some pictures of your lab.

    As far as the gentetic behind them, it seems you're a little confused. The mix to weim occured well before the inbreeding. The mix (intentional or not) put the dilute gene into that genepool then by inbreeding (full siblings, parent to offspring) you express that dilute gene. By once again inbreeding, you keep it there. The "original silvers" can all be traced back to a kennel that bred both weims and labs...you honestly see no coincedence?? Why are these rare mutations seen no where else in the world??

    Are they beautiful dogs? Some are...but that's not the point (many mutts and mixbreeds are incredible looking). The point is that there is a standard and to breed for faults or non existant/acceptable colors is done for no other reason than to create something "rare" and charge obnoxious prices. How much did you pay for your dog?

    As far as showing...your dog is registered as chocolate, right? So get out there and show him.

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