Just Labradors banner

when to spay?

4K views 29 replies 19 participants last post by  BigBrownDog 
#1 ·
I know there are differences of opinions. But here goes, I want to have my puppy spayed but I have been told that it is better to let her go through one heat before spaying???

Any valid data??? I have an intact male so I have to be careful if I choose to wait for the first heat

Thanks

Scutter
 
#2 · (Edited)
Spaying a dog before her first heat is the best way to significantly reduce the chance your dog will develop certain cancers. Most vets will recommend this and will spay around 6-8 months of age. In a large breed dog, I'd do it as early as 4 months.
 
#27 ·
Spaying a dog before her first heat is the best way to significantly reduce the chance your dog will develop certain cancers. Most vets will recommend this and will spay around 6-8 months of age. In a large breed dog, I'd do it as early as 4 months.
And open her up to significantly increase the rates of other cancers.

Me personally, I don't want any female puppy of mine spayed before she's a year of age and it's written into my contract.
 
#3 ·
You have opened up a discussion that cycles through here frequently. I have found there are two major camps on the issue. Before first heat, and after first heat. I have read several articles and studies and they are loaded with conflicting data. The data, as I interpret it indicates that the occurrance of some cancers is reduced if before first heat, and other cancers if after first heat.

I don't think there is a right answer. Some believe that it is wrong to spay, or neuter, before sexual maturity is reached. It has the potential to affect bone and muscle development negatively. Most vets around here recommend spaying at 6 months. I questioned the impact on bone and muscle development and they confirmed the potential, but stayed with their position because of specific cancer risk that is reduced. When challenged on the other data indicating more serious cancers are reduced if spayed after first heat, I got denial or a response that there are no guarantees either way.
 
#5 ·
Waiting for physical maturity (not sexual) means that the puppy has the benefit of developing normally and the increased risk of cancer is so miniscule as to be not worth mentioning.

When you spay a dog at 6 months or less (which I have done) it keeps the growth plates open longer which will make for a lankier adult. This can potentially have some effect on the possibility that they will develop joint issues. However - those same females I spayed early had no joint issues develop at all. So - again risk may not be all that great.

If you have an intact male around you should absolutely spay her before the first heat.
 
#6 ·
I spay Cinnamon at 6 month. If I had to do it over again I would probably wait till after her first cycle and do it at a year. Because she is lanky but I don't care she is a pet not a show dog. I figure I know so little that I would listen to some of the experts here that I trust and wait.

But with an intact male I think I would do it before her first cycle unless there is someone one of them can go visit for the days she is fertile . She is not her whole cycle. Some of the breeders here can tell you what days those are and how to determine them if you are interested.
 
#7 ·
I waited to neuter Blaise (and have not yet done it) because I wanted to have him develop fully first. He'll be a year old next week. He has also not exhibited any behavioral issues related to being intact so I have no pressure on me otherwise. And he will be neutered before long - probably sometime in March.

Diesel is VERY lanky - and he was neutered at 6 months before I got him. He looks like he is on stilts - actually comical comparing him to Blaise. He is at least 3 inches taller at the shoulder.
 
#8 ·
I with Nancy about doing when it is right for you.

My personal opinion is to wait until at least a year. For me having had 2 dogs suffer from joint disease and bone cancer it is not something I will risk even if there is a shred of evidence.
Kassa was spayed at 7 months. Bone cancer of the jaw took her at the age of 3. I very much doubt if this is related, but know what bone cancer does to a dog. In the 5 years I have been with the bone cancer group have learned there is evidence that can't be ignored in Rotties that spaying too early does make a difference.

I adopted Ernie wehn he was 3. He was spayed at 12 weeks- heavens knows why- and he has serious H.D and joint issues. Hip dislpaysia is bred and his life style before I got him. Who knows if the early spay made a difference.

Both Kassa and Ernie stayed short and stocky.
 
#11 ·
I don't know if this is fact or fiction. I have read and been told by a couple vets that it is important to let makes especially, mature and finish skeletal development before neutering. They believe that not waiting sends signalls and the bones grow to fast and too large. I tends to aggravate HD, and eventual arthritis. Again, this is only what I have been told.

I would suspect that something similar could be true for females. I don't really know why it wouldn't.
 
#9 ·
I've heard both sides, too, but when I adopted Abbey, I was on a spay/neuter contract that had to have her spayed before a certain date. I don't remember exactly how old she was, but I believe it was around 6 months.

Abbey does have a recessed vulva, which the vets at the humane society neglected to ever mention and I didn't know to look for as she was my first female dog. Sometimes it can correct itself if a dog goes through 1 heat cycle, so I would have liked to have known before having her spayed. Now I have to keep an eye on her to watch for signs of infection, and if that happens a bunch of times I will have to consider doing an episioplasty, which corrects that problem.

So there are pros and cons to both- I would talk to your vet and see what his/her advice is. The vet I work for generally says before the first heat cycle, but it depends on the dog, their health, etc.
 
#10 ·
Personally, I'd wait until she's closer to a year. If you're going to be doing performance/field work with her, you especially want her to have the hormones there until she's full grown. If you're boy is over 18mo, I'd neuter him now and let your girl grow up a bit.
 
#12 ·
I can say I read and read and researched this topic for months and months before I got Sedona and really agonized over it. I knew she would come into heat at two years or so since that is what the female history was on both sides of her parents. I knew I would not do it until after she was a year old, even with well meaning people advising me to do it sooner. I had Sedona spayed at 14 months as I feel she was mature enough at that point. She has had absolutely no problems and I just stood firm in what I felt best for her. I agree also with others on this subject - do what you think is best for your puppy and you.
 
#14 ·
How old is your boy? I also believe early neutering in boys has something to do with early onset osteosarcoma, and have a boy in my home who I decided to neuter early, 'To save costs' like my THEN vet pointed out, no one told me why not.

As for your girl, if she has ever had a UTI or any urinary issues, I would definitely NOT spay her before her first season.

It does have to be right for you though, and it does mean a lot of responsibility when she is in season, if you choose to go that route.
 
#16 ·
If your girl has not had any problems with UTIs or puppy vaginitis I would spay before the first heat. Prior to an estrus cycle, the risk of mammary tumors is virtually zero. With each heat a *****'s chance of tumors rises exponentially. Especially if you aren't going to neuter your male, I would spay before the first heat.
 
#17 ·
I think you have to look at the fact that you also have an intact male dog...this will be a problem as they will do anything in their power to mate. If you can 100% not allow them to mate then waiting is okay but if you have doubts about keeping them seperate then spaying her early would be a good choice.
 
#18 ·
I agree with many of the others in that if you can, wait until she is at least a year old. Why is your male not neutered? I have kept two females in heat with two intact males in the house, and while the boys were big puddles of slobber and quivering whining nerves, it was possible. The boy will drive you nuts! Remmeber, they can mate through a crate, chain link fence and it can happen very quickly!
 
#19 ·
The worst thing about a female in heat are male dogs! Even neutered ones are a pain! I separate my dogs when Misha is in heat (she just started actually). Last time Homer had his elbow surgery and stayed 4 days at the vet. When I took him home for 10 minutes to pick up his stuff and take him to a friend´s home to recover, Misha stayed downstairs and Homer with me. The whole 10 minutes were a concert of whines...

As mentioned it is your decision. I totally believe that they need to fully mature, grow and use their hormones to actually mentally grow too. HD is a big problem in labs and there are studies that conclude that neutered/spayed dogs at an early age have a higher incidence of HD. That alone for me is a reason to wait.

Since I have the facilities to separate my two when Misha is in heat, I have opted to keep them intact as long as possible. I don´t see the need to make them go through an unnecesary surgery, I have to be a responsible owner.
 
#20 ·
As mentioned it is your decision. I totally believe that they need to fully mature, grow and use their hormones to actually mentally grow too. HD is a big problem in labs and there are studies that conclude that neutered/spayed dogs at an early age have a higher incidence of HD. That alone for me is a reason to wait.
Not to pick on you specifically blackandyellow, I'm assuming you and others who mentioned the HD connection are referencing this article:
Spain CV, Scarlett JM, Houpt KA. Long-term risks and benefits of early-age gonadectomy in dogs. JAVMA 2004;224:380-387

The authors actually compared pediatric and traditional age (6+ months) neutering, splitting the groups into those neutered at 5.5 months and after 5.5 months. The OP's dog is beyond what would be considered pediatric spay/neuter. Interesting to note that the authors actually recommend continuing to advise spay/neuter at 6-8 months in their conclusion.

Most, if not all, of the articles cited as studies on the effects of early spay/neuter are looking at pediatric surgeries. I don't know of any that have been done looking at dogs neutered at traditional ages versus those neutered later in life. I still neuter and spay my dogs at maturity like most in this thread, but the scientific data isn't available to support that choice over traditional ages yet.
 
#21 ·
I assumed there were folks on both sides, Most dog breeders and trainers say wait and vets say early. I chose not to neuter my male for several reasons, I wanted full development and he is one of the best looking labs at our club and often gets comments, he also has a lot of desireable traits for someone who hunts. I thought that I may want to try to breed him at least once. He is now older and being intact has not been an issue until now with the new puppy. She is on the small side (48 lbs at 9 months) I really want her to have every chance to develop. So I wanted to let her have her first heat. seperating the dogs will be my only option unless I go ahead and neuter him. He is 8 1/2 years old but in really good shape. This entire subject of spay and neuter has often confused me as there are differing opinions that seem to have valid documentation and valid concerns on both sides. I have been considering neutering the male and was thinking about doing it right after the holidays.

Are there some concerns with having an older male neutered???

Thanks

Scutter
 
#23 ·
Are there some concerns with having an older male neutered???

Thanks

Scutter
I think the main concern would be for any surgery at his age. Just this risks of anesthesia that increase with age. Also older animals tend to heal much slower and have a harder time with recovery; just in general. But pre-operative bloodwork would be done anyway since he's a senior. Jmo, at his age, I probably wouldn't do an elective surgery. I'm definitely in the spay early camp (I've worked in veterinary medicine/animal rescue for years) so I find it ironic that I would ever recommend anyone not neuter! :eek:
 
#25 ·
I have a rescued female "mostly" lab, who I'd like spayed.

The main 2 reasons I want her spayed: she's not purebred, and I have no interest in the work & worry of a litter. And every year most of the pets in shelters are put down. I just want a healthy, happy family pet.

She's had a urinary infection. What's the deal with waiting until she's had her first heat, if she's had a UTI? Also, spaying is traumatic. What age will it be less stressful to her?
 
#30 ·
I'll answer.

The UTI may be an indicator of an inverted vulva, which will often correct itself after they have been through an initial heat. Waiting for your girl may be of lifelong benefit if that is the case.

Waiting allows your dog to fully grow up - the hormones are beneficial in allowing proper growth - particularly of the legs/joints. Early spay will keep the growth plates open longer which will result in a taller dog - and makes for an increase in the risk of orthopedic issues. Not a huge risk in my experience but it's there.

The risk of waiting is obvious - you have to be scrupulously vigilant to avoid unwanted breeding. And a ***** in heat is not a party.

The approach most vets take is a global one oriented toward the greater good - which is why you see them advocating for early spay - 6 months or younger. It is good for the population of dogs as a group - reduces unwanted puppies landing in shelters.

In my experience with the dogs I have had spayed - it is not as terribly traumatic as you might think. My collie was fine after a few days. My Dutch Shepherd jumped on the dining room table the day after hers.
 
#28 ·
I really struggled with when to spay Sedona. The breeder preferred after her first heat and we discussed it many times. My vet wanted to do it much sooner. Both Sedona's maternal and paternal females went into heat at two years old or later. I decided I would make the decision I felt was right for her. I am the kind of person that thinks things to death and then start all over again. I had decided it would definitely be after she was a year old because I wanted her growth plates to close and for her to develop. I had her spayed at 14 months and she did really well and has continued to do well. It was a constant discussion in my family and my husband basically told me to do what I thought was best and to go with my gut feeling. I think I made the right decision.
 
#29 ·
First - good for you for coming here, asking the questions you have, being responsible about not wanting an accidental litter, and being honest. It may open you to criticism, but please don't take it personally. There are a lot of strong feelings on this board, especially when it comes to breeding (both from breeders and from those of us in rescue).

I'm with the camp that you should neuter your male, and not breed him, regardless. I understand loving your dog and wanting one of his puppies, but like others have said, that's how a lot of pups end up in shelters - even if you place all the pups in good homes, there's potential that they'll breed, or end up being turned in at some point, and however it happens, your well-meaning breeding caused a dog to suffer and be put down. Just a thought. Negative, I know, but I volunteer for rescue and unfortunately I see it all the time.

Besides, he should also have all his clearances, titles, etc., and at 8-1/2 is getting a bit old for stud. You've held out this long so there's obviously some hesitation. Here's a long-shot compromise - maybe have him "collected" and sperm frozen? (Not sure how feasible this is, but it is possible.) Then get him neutered, have all his clearances done, find the reputable breeder who might be interested and then rethink the breeding. He should be able to go through the neuter surgery just fine - and it's easier than spay surgery at any age unless he has specific health issues (back to rethinking the breeding, in that case...)

In any case, you want to have at least one of them fixed before you have accidental puppies. Regardless of where you stand on the early vs. later spay.

Chamois was spayed very early. Too early. But she was a rescue so there wasn't anything we could do about it.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top