Thoughts...
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Thread: Thoughts...

  1. #1
    Diesel_Dawg is offline Senior Member
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    QuestionThoughts...

    Ok. There is NO sarcasm in this post, so please put your guard down long enough to really ponder what I am saying here. I am being serious so I request that you read this in its entirety before you form your opinion or drop your gloves.

    Something I find most intriguing about this board is how defensive some of you are. I didn't realize it could be so one sided here. You say this is a place where people can post as they see fit, you can hate on people, love them, cry for them, chastise them, yada yada yada. And yet someone like myself posts an opinion that questions the way youíve conducted yourself & all of a sudden the board is NOT a free place to voice your opinion.

    Debating about conduct is no different than debating about what kind of food to feed our dogs. Why does one debate evoke a much stronger reaction? Some people love Cesar Milan & find truth in what he says, others think he is a moron who knows nothing about dogs. Difference of opinion, thatís all. Simple. Thought provoking. Would you tell someone to GTFO for liking him when you hate him? No, because that would be silly. So why get all up in arms when someone disagrees with your opinions that dictate your conduct? Is it really that offensive & condescending for someone to tell you that they feel you are wrong? Is it not just as offensive & condescending to call someone an idiot, liar, or worse?

    Someone's interpretation & opinion of who you are is not an attempt to change who you are or the flow of the board. It is simply an opinion. Open for discussion. No reason to take such offense, but an excellent reason to exercise your right to debate it or your right to ignore it.

    It reminds me of the saying, donít dish it out if you canít take it. If you don't want or cannot handle this kind of reaction to your no holds barred opinions you force on everyone then you also have the option to not participate or leave the board yourself, but telling people to leave because you don't like what they have to say just means what they have said hit home. Or perhaps there should have been a disclaimer for this board... "we like to talk shit sometimes, we don't like anyone to tell us this is wrong, if you would be one of these people you cannot join this forum because while we like to give opinions, we do not like to receive them."

    You want to hate on people - that's your opinion, that's your right. I want to say I think it's inappropriate - that's my opinion, that's my right. That's the joys of freedom of speech, public forum.

    I hope this wasnít a vain attempt that will only garner more of the same. Because the best part of all this is that we will all continue to boast about the love of the breed, our beloved fur kids, share pictures, funny stories & hard times, cry on one another's shoulders, vent about personal issues, challenge each otherís postings, throw in some drama for good measure because as already said around here a number of times, this is how JL is, love it or leave it. Itís a dysfunctional family. One that I am happy to be a part of & I am not going anywhere.

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  3. #2
    dweck's Avatar
    dweck is offline Senior Member
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    Is this directed at noobs or veterans? I'm not sure which 'side' of the issue you're chastising.

    And...

    Some of your assumptions are, IMHO, a little shaky.

    board is NOT a free place to voice your opinion
    It was, is, and forever shall be a place to voice any opinion on anything. I haven't seen one opinion censored here. We have mods for admin purposes only, but other than the deletion of a spammer or other chowderhead intent on interrupting the board, their activities are low-level. Most of the time, they're over a cyber-corner, cleaning the lint out from between their toes.

    while we like to give opinions, we do not like to receive them
    I disagree w/this. First, I opinions aren't //received//. They're offered, proposed, solicited. They're understood or mis-understood. They're debated. They're accepted or rejected. They're qualified or quantified. They're revised or abandoned. They're evaluated, judged, sometimes mis-judged, and sometimes re-judged.

    But they're not 'received' in terms of I put this out there, now it's yours deal with it.

    You want to hate on people
    I don't know of a single JLer who comes here to hate people. Isn't there a separate forum for that? justmisanthropists.com or something?

    As for Noobs ----

    All of us were Noobs at one point. We felt the heat, made the blunders, stepped on toes, said stupid things, and either hung around or didn't hang around. I don't think the board is any more or less welcoming than when I joined a zillion years ago. If you're interested in Labs from a 360-degree view and want to know everything there is about them, this is the place for you. If you want to trade barbs and be silly and debate political points and post goofy pictures of your dogs wearing groucho glasses, this is the place for you. If you can be thick-skinned enough to roll with the wax and wane of the board, this is the place for you.

    And if not. Not. It's all good.

    What most Noobs don't understand (and I 'get it', I didn't understand either in the early years) is that we've been asked questions again and again and again. That's what was the impetus behind the OUR BEST ADVICE sticky. But they still come.

    Things start to go awry, however, when noobs ask for expertise, and it's given, and then the attitude emerges.

    Ex --

    Noob: I have a problem: When I use a tie-out for my dog, he barks when the temps go down to -42 degrees in the winter. Even in his black coat, when he gets buried under 10' of snow, I cannot see him. What can I do to quiet him down.

    Veteran: Tie-outs are a really bad idea for Labs, who are extremely social and want to be w/their people. Notwithstanding the risk of the tie-out breaking, the dog slipping from the collar, the dog being injured some other way, the dog being stolen.

    Noob: But how do I exercise this animal.

    Veteran: Two vigorous walks; one in the morning, one in the evening.

    Noob: Well I'm not doing THAT!!! Are you CRAZY!! What kind of stupid high-maintenance dog did I get myself?!?! I thought LABS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE EASY TO TAKE CARE OF! THAT'S WHAT MY BREEDER SAID!!!!

    and on.
    and on.
    and on.

    Kelrobin Cleveland Street Denizen, CGC, RN [Parker]

    "Dear George: Remember, no man is a failure who has friends. Thanks for the wings. Love, Clarence" -- IAWL Screenplay (1946)

  4. #3
    Diesel_Dawg is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dweck View Post
    Is this directed at noobs or veterans? I'm not sure which 'side' of the issue you're chastising.
    Dan, thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. I am not 'chastising' anyone, if that is how this was interpreted then perhaps I should have been more concise.

    Quote Originally Posted by dweck View Post
    It was, is, and forever shall be a place to voice any opinion on anything. I haven't seen one opinion censored here. We have mods for admin purposes only, but other than the deletion of a spammer or other chowderhead intent on interrupting the board, their activities are low-level. Most of the time, they're over a cyber-corner, cleaning the lint out from between their toes.

    I disagree w/this. First, I opinions aren't //received//. They're offered, proposed, solicited. They're understood or mis-understood. They're debated. They're accepted or rejected. They're qualified or quantified. They're revised or abandoned. They're evaluated, judged, sometimes mis-judged, and sometimes re-judged.

    But they're not 'received' in terms of I put this out there, now it's yours deal with it.
    What I was referring to, what I see often is a "do as I say not as I do" mentality. Someone can call me an asshole, but if I tell them I feel their comment was inappropriate, I get a "you don't like it, leave the board & go find a new one with butterflies & puppy dogs". Do you see the difference? The first opinion is being offered, proposed, solicited... then rightfully debated, the retort isn't qualifying what was originally said, it's just another variation of the original comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by dweck View Post
    I don't know of a single JLer who comes here to hate people. Isn't there a separate forum for that? justmisanthropists.com or something?
    I didn't say hate people, I said hate on people which was actually a term used by a veteran. It basically means calling people names & being rude.

    I started this thread purely out of curiosity. Really. Not to cause anyone to defend the board or their choice to 'hate on people'. I just don't understand how disagreeing with someone on one topic incites a decent debate but commenting on how you feel someone crossed a line with their behaviour results in GTFO. Can anyone explain this to me? Guards down?

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  6. #4
    BoatDog is offline Senior Member
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    Thank you Dan, as always, for being so articulate!

    As for this post, while I am sure it relates to the 2 posts here, it really belongs in O&E.

    As for the content of this post, I will not allow myself to comment.

  7. #5
    dweck's Avatar
    dweck is offline Senior Member
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    My error in mis-reading the hate-on.

    And I think your point here is valid:

    Someone can call me an asshole, but if I tell them I feel their comment was inappropriate, I get a "you don't like it, leave the board
    But rather than take it as a slight against the entire board, I'd probably chalk it up to someone (or someones) having a bad day, being tired, just having rec'd a credit card bill with three commas in it, etc.

    But then again, I'm a veteran who has seen this board at its best... and even at it's not-so-best. I've been on the end of the stick with the bum poop and without the bum poop.

    That was my point: If you can't handle the bum poop (oh, how meta this has all gotten), fine. okay. no harm/no foul. feel free to either get used to the stickiness or move along.

    Kelrobin Cleveland Street Denizen, CGC, RN [Parker]

    "Dear George: Remember, no man is a failure who has friends. Thanks for the wings. Love, Clarence" -- IAWL Screenplay (1946)

  8. #6
    blacklabparent is offline Senior Member
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    T.I.M.A. @ Bum Poop.

  9. #7
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    kelli is offline Senior Member
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    This isn't very clear for the newer people on this board so allow me to tell you how this works.

    We bring up a hot topic (you may pick from): Breeding, religion, politics, food, crate training, e-collars and so on and so forth..
    We post our opinion, which usually follows by a differing opinion, or advice followed by no desire to take advice, depending on the topic at hand..
    We battle it out for 24 pages, usually divided into 3 groups, one side, other side, neutral because i love everyone
    Feelings get trampled, indignation is rampant, both sides declare victory
    WE MOVE ON

    Pretty much fully intact at that.

    Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

    Can we stop beating this poor horse now?


    kelli, tucker and koda

  10. #8
    BoatDog is offline Senior Member
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    Well, we coulda - but calling me neutral is just plain MEAN Kel! Them's fightin words - rest of post is ok tho!

  11. #9
    Diesel_Dawg is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dweck View Post
    But rather than take it as a slight against the entire board, I'd probably chalk it up to someone (or someones) having a bad day, being tired, just having rec'd a credit card bill with three commas in it, etc.

    But then again, I'm a veteran who has seen this board at its best... and even at it's not-so-best. I've been on the end of the stick with the bum poop and without the bum poop.

    That was my point: If you can't handle the bum poop (oh, how meta this has all gotten), fine. okay. no harm/no foul. feel free to either get used to the stickiness or move along.
    It's not taking it as a slight from the entire board, I was referring to two separate groups - the people who 'hate on' and the ones that think it's inappropriate.

    Bum poop. Literally, yuck! Figuratively, for the purpose of this thread, I like the stickiness.

    Y'all love & accept & jump to defend the name callers, I guess I am just looking for a little acceptance as well. I am not offended when someone tells me to GTFO. My inquisitive mind just wanted to understand where it was coming from is all. As you graciously noted above, you feel my point was valid. Thank you. I guess I will just have to chalk it up to "I'll never know!", sometimes I have a hard time letting shit go. (Really??!!)

    I'll give it time, you'll all love me soon enough! Until you do, just understand it's never my intention to be a shit disturber or even try to change your views or tell you that you are a horrible person (as I have never thought that of anyone here), it is simply to offer, propose, solicit my opinion - thank you for correcting me on that Dan.

  12. #10
    Diesel_Dawg is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelli View Post
    This isn't very clear for the newer people on this board so allow me to tell you how this works.

    We bring up a hot topic (you may pick from): Breeding, religion, politics, food, crate training, e-collars and so on and so forth..
    We post our opinion, which usually follows by a differing opinion, or advice followed by no desire to take advice, depending on the topic at hand..
    We battle it out for 24 pages, usually divided into 3 groups, one side, other side, neutral because i love everyone
    Feelings get trampled, indignation is rampant, both sides declare victory
    WE MOVE ON

    Pretty much fully intact at that.

    Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

    Can we stop beating this poor horse now?
    Well WTH didn't anyone tell me that in the first place??? I am kidding. Very well put, I agree. Like I said, inquisitive mind, never wants to let shit go, rambles on & on, beats dead horses. Personality defect? Perhaps. But that's just me. Thanks for the input Kelli.

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