I know, I know, but I felt it needed to be posted. I do not post this to keep the argument going. I'm posting this as info only.
As everyone prolly knows by now, I don't recommend LB puppy food to my puppy buyers. In another post someone mentioned they were doing their own study by contacting the various service dog organizations and will report their info in a few months. Well, I work closely with Leader Dogs for the Blind since Seamus donates his semen to them. I knew in the past what they do, but contacted them again for an update on what they tell their puppy raisers to do with the Lab puppies. Nothing has changed.
This is just a FYI for those confused as to what to do and to show what others are doing. From the head of the puppy development program:
"We recommend the regular puppy food until the age of 4 months. After that we move to adult food. We have a lower than average of hip and elbow dysplasia rate and we X-ray every puppy in our program."
Again, I'm not debating this with anyone. I put this up for just the information. Remember, they have hundreds if not thousands of puppies each year with thousands of dollars wrapped up in each puppy.
♣ Laura ♣
That is certainly more meaningful to me than any study sponsored by the feed manufacturers. As if I needed anything beyond your recommendation.
Hershey Kisses, In charge of getting Ed out to the dog park so that he gets some exercise.
I heard from Guide Dogs for the Blind in California. they are feeding their Lab puppies the ProPlan lamb & rice puppy.
also waiting to hear from the Seeing Eye Dogs.
I know LD uses ProPlan also since it's easy to find for both their puppy raisers and the clients who get the finished dogs.
♣ Laura ♣
My breeder also advised against feeding large breed puppy. However she wanted puppy food to be continued until all the adult teeth had come in, around 8 months. Quite a few people on the forum advised me that I should switch to adult ASAP since he was growing fast(sometimes 3+ lbs a week) but I stuck with my breeders recommendation. She knows her lines the best and what works for them.
I am curious to get Guthrie's hips done. I suspect they are fine...both brother and sister passed hips and elbows without any problems.
Laura...how much of a role (as compared to nutrition) does environment have on joint health? (ie...like having puppies jumping off furniture or overwalked?) How about having puppies too heavy? Does food have the biggest impact on joint health(not counting genetics)
When I got my pup (6 years ago) Large Breed food was really being pushed for Labs and bigger dogs. Everything I read (including this site) emphasized that I should be feeding LB puppy food. I almost drove myself crazy researching dog foods, but ended up sticking with what my breeder recommended. It seemed like the calcium/phosphorus ratio was the important thing and that was okay. We were careful regarding appropriate exercise and never letting her jump from anywhere high, like our vehicle. We couldn't possibly have been any more diligent, however as we suspected fairly early on her hips are not great. My understanding is that you can not cause major hip problems/dysplasia under normal circumstances in a dog that does not already have a genetic predisposition to dysplasia. I work in rescue and see medium/larger breed pups that have had lousy care and diets through their first year and yet their hips turn out fine. Of course in a dog that is predisposed genetically anything you can do to lessen the problem (like appropriate exercise and a good diet) is that much more important, so I can certainly understand why breeders make a point of mentioning these things. Most of them just seemed like common sense to me.
Last edited by Top Of The Hill; 09-30-2010 at 01:17 AM.
I have several CCI (I think...I could be wrong...yellow dog vests with blue/yellow logo?) dogs in my Rally class. Tonight I asked one of the ladies about how the pups are fed. She said that the organization dictated that all pups are to be fed Eukanuba LB puppy food BECAUSE Eukanuba donates millions of dollars to the organization. (All puppies are produced in California I think). However, there is something in the LB puppy formulation (the preservatives she said) that causes diarrhea. So, the organization says that if/when the puppies get diarrhea, switch them to ProPlan Chicken and Rice! Eukanuba recognizes the problem with the LB puppy formula and is conducting "poop" studies. Those puppy rearing families that are participating, must examine each and every stool produced by the puppy. Rate it's color, consistency, how often the puppy poops etc., and send the daily "log" in with their monthly reports that they must send in.
So, if the information I got was correct, the dog food manufacturer (because of the money they donate) get to dictate what the puppies are fed.
Karen and the gang
BBI Kodi's Journey To Anotch (Journey)
BBI Kodi's Blackpowder Striker (Flint)
I have been told it is genetic plus all the other things. Ernies owners let him jump on furniture, in and out of the car, long walks or runs, or no walks for weeks, and he was 62lbs at a year old. He is 52lbs now at 8. His joints are a mess. Ernies breeders said it wasn't anything to do with breeding it had to be the owners.
Both Kassa and Erns were feed Eukanuba. Maybe not the best in the US, but was here. We put a ramp in so Kassa didn't clumb stairs, carried her in and out of the car until she got too heavy and very careful with her hips.Hers were fine.
ETA..Both their hip scores were good.
Last edited by kassabella; 09-30-2010 at 07:09 AM.
Based on my experience as a breeder, each plays an important role. Genetics plays the key role. CHD and ED are genetically based. However, you can do damage to delicate joints by overdoing or injury. Are these CHD or ED when it occurs? Maybe not, but most arthritic changes in the hips and elbows are labeled CHD or ED even when they might not be. Nutrition is very vital. If you do not have proper nutrition then you may never have the potential of the animal develop properly.
And you did correct by following what your breeder told you.
♣ Laura ♣
I fed the Eukanuba LB puppy. Their calcium levels are low and that's all I'm saying.
♣ Laura ♣