Let me start out by expressing that I am not a 'blogger' or someone who does this type of thing often. The truth is that I have never witten an opinion in any forum of any type. I am only doing this now due to my own frustration and in an attempt to fully understand why this is really happening and whether or not there is/are a better soloution(s).
I have recently been comparing breeders online in an effort to purchase a lab pup in the near future, and am finding that most - if not all - reputable breeders now only sell their puppies with limited registrations. I have communicated with a number of breeders on the subject. I have also read many articles and opinions and have very mixed emotions...
What are your opinions?
My opinion is that this is a VERY good thing. The only time this is an "issue" is if one wants to breed and register the offspring of said puppy. From my understanding one can still DO all the things they may want to with the dog (perform in almost all venues/activities).
Breeders put alot of time and heart into their lines, and don't want just anyone and anyone to breed their dogs. Generally they ones going to homes are ment to be pets first and foremost, as the breeders will KEEP the ones that have potential to be bred (either thru their conformation or their drive or better yet, both as well as a mulititude of over things). They want to know that if someone breeds one of their puppies, they will do ALL the appropriate clearances and rpove the dog in some venue - some some breeders will sell on limited registration but with proof of all this may lift the limited (SOME may).
If you DO wish to become involved in breeding - your best bet is to get a first dog and start getting involved. Volunteer at kennel club events, get a dog and work wtih them and develop working relationships with breeders.
Last edited by Tanya; 12-14-2011 at 01:57 PM.
Charlie (foster) and Rocky
Why do good breeders sell on limited registration? Partially it is to protect their own lines and reputation as they don't want indiscriminate breeding of dogs they produce. Most of the puppies in even the best bred litters are not close enough to the breed standard to warrant being part of a breeding program - so having limited registrations helps to protect the quality of Labs in the population - only the best examples (who've been cleared for all genetic disorders and also proven in some competitive venue) should be bred. So - partially it is concern for the breed overall - breeding should only be done to produce offspring that help better the population. This requires deep expertise, research and connections with other responsible breeders in the Lab world - not just knowing someone who has an intact animal of the opposite sex.
Not being able to register offspring of a litter born to a dog on limited registration helps reduce the number of those litters being made. There are far too many BYBs and mills producing puppies irresponsibly and far too many Labs in shelters and rescue to warrant casual breeders making more Lab puppies.
And - breeding is really not for the casual pet owner. There are a lot of expensive tests to be done to get an adult dog's health cleared. Even if you don't do that, choosing an appropriate mate requires understanding of genetics. The bitch can have issues during labor and wind up needing medical intervention which can run into thousands of dollars. Then there are the puppies - good breeders commit to the puppies they produce for the lifetime of the dogs. If ever an owner can't keep the dog for some reason responsible breeders take them back and work to rehome them. Most people thinking of casually breeding their dog don't consider any of this.
Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.
What do you plan on doing with your puppy that limited registration would bother you?
Thanks for your reply. I have a couple questions for you....
You state that breeders "put alot of time and heart into their lines" and that "the breeders will KEEP the ones that have potential to be bred". I want to address these two arguments independently.
First, one breeder I talked to told me that she no longer sold pups with full registrations in an effort to protect her lines. I then asked her if she allowed her beautiful champion to be used for stud. She did. I then asked her how she was protecting her line. She didn't have an answer and she hung up the phone. Secondly, if breeders are "keeping the ones that have potential to be bred", am I to believe that they are only willing to sell me a dog that is somehow sub-standard? I hope not.
I feel that there is merit to the idea of limited registration, but that it is basically flawed. If a person like me wants to potentially breed our dogs in the future, we will be forced to buy lesser quality dogs from lower quality breeders. This won't improve the breed! I am trying to be more responsible from the start in obtaining a dog with a better pedigree, with health clearances on both parents, from a breeder with a history of producing top quality dogs in all aspects of health and temperament...and I keep being told "NO".
I am a responsible dog owner. I have owned many dogs including 5 labs - 3 males and 2 females. I had intentions of breeding both of my females. I didn't on my own discrection. Summer had a weak heart. Christie never settled down. They were both beautiful dogs who were wonderful members of our family, but I had them both spayed because I am a responsible owner. Why should that be someone else's decision?
The bottom line to me is this. With very few exceptions, ALL breeders started with one dog, maybe two. If the owners were responsible, they had, at minimum, hips, elbows and eyes checked. They then began a breeding program with either their own two dogs, or with an outside stud. My point is, they all started somewhere.
As for some breeders possibly agreeing to lift the limited registration at some point in the future, I haven't found any. I have proposed a limited registration up until I have normal or better OFA prelims in and have had a CERF clearance obtained. I even suggested to one breeder that I would agree in writing to come back to her exclusively for stud service. I haven't had any luck.
Any further suggestions would be appreciated.
I don't plan on doing anything...I would just like to keep my options open if I did decide to show her or breed her at some point in the future if she grew into the dog that I hope she will. Beautiful headshot, btw. He? looks a lot like Christie did.
If you want a good dog to start, you will have to play by the breeder's rules. Your comment about studding out the males shows you do have a lot to learn, and that learning curve is why reputable breeders put out pets on limited registration. Reputable breeders don't sell stud services to just any bitch, just the way that they don't sell puppies just to any family or allow show prospects just to anyone.
If you really want to learn about breeding dogs, you will need to get off your soap box and build relationships with some of your local breeders either through your local lab club or kennel club. There are breeders willing to sell you nice puppy on a co own if you are willing to play by their rules. But breeding usually happens after you have proven the dog in obedience or conformation, and if you approach breeders with the sole idea of breeding ithe future, you are going to be turned away. If you approach them with a desire to learn, train, you will probably find more doors open to you.
Just because a person has the desire to breed their dog does not mean they SHOULD breed her. Breeding is much more than just getting 2 registered dogs together and letting nature take it's course! What makes you qualified to become a breeder? People who think they can just turn out some puppies and make a few bucks is one reason there are so many dogs in rescues or unwanted, or unhealthy.
Sophie DOB 04/13/2011 6 mo
Sophie 15 months, with Skye
Hi! Welcome to the forum! I hope you like it here!
Ok, I think about it like this... For health clearances, I do hips, elbows, heart (ECHO), annual eye exams and then I do (or know through parentage) PRA and EIC. I show my dogs in conformation so I can compare them to my peer's dogs and the breed standard for structure....I'd like them to at least have some points and preferably their Championship. I do hunt tests with my dogs to prove their ability in the field and show that I'm upholding the desire in them to do what the breed was created to do. If someone were to come to me and say they wanted to do all of these things as well, I would be happy to talk to them about it, but more often than not, I get what you're kinda doing here... "I want to keep my options open on MY dog." Well, like it or not, every puppy born here has my name attached to it (at least as breeder, if not owner/co-owner) and if someone is thinking about breeding it, they're going to be held to the same standards that I hold for myself....and it's not a la carte