Stressing Out! To Co-Own or not to Co-Own, that is the question!!!
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Thread: Stressing Out! To Co-Own or not to Co-Own, that is the question!!!

  1. #1
    cfriend76 is offline Junior Member
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    DefaultStressing Out! To Co-Own or not to Co-Own, that is the question!!!

    Hello to all fellow lab lovers! I have a question/concern and I am hoping you can help me. We will be bringing home our newest addition to the family in 3 weeks’ time and we are all so excited. We have been doing all of our research and preparation and I think we are ready to welcome him into our home, now here is my question... We are getting a male from the litter, there are three males, and we have first pick behind the breeder. Last Saturday I went to visit the babies (as I have done every weeks since they were born) and they are getting big and really starting to show their personalities etc. The breeder really likes the same one that I am drawn to (go figure and she has offered us a co-ownership type scenario. I have not seen a contract and we have only spoken very casually at this point about it but I do know that it would mean we could NOT neuter him and we would receive half of all stud fees. Other than that he would be our dog, our responsibility etc. On one hand the idea sounds great, but I am not sure if my concerns outweigh the benefits, or should I say one concern...

    Not neutering a male dog worries me, I hear horror stories about running off, aggression, marking etc. I had planned to have him neutered at 6 months, just as everyone has told me a responsible pet owner should and if we decided to go with the co-ownership I am not sure when we would be able to have him neutered. I have formed a very good relationship with the breeder over the last few weeks and I think this is the only reason she is willing to do this with us because we live close and she trusts us.

    What do you guys think? Should we do the co-ownership and get the puppy we really like, or go with one of the other two (who are just as great) and not worry about all this other stuff??? Please help!

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    Beerfish is offline Senior Member
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    Others who have been through this will have good opinions I'm sure but I would not want to co-own for the reason you talked about, the non neutering. If you are not going to show the dog or have any interest in the breeding process I would choose the next best guy out of the lot and not have to worry about any of the things that potentially concern you.

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    BigBrownDog is offline Senior Member
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    Is this a show prospect? Do you want to have a show dog?

    Neutering at 6 months is not the preferred age for optimal development of the dog BTW. And - a well bred intact male Labrador is not at an increased risk of bad behavior.
    Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.

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    cfriend76 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi, Thanks for the question.

    This would be a co-ownership situation for breeding purposes only. I do not show, nor do I have the desire to show, the breeder would like to have the option of studding him out in the future. She did say that 6 months is too early for neutering him and that it would "stunt" his growth. More than anything I am receiving advise from family who thinks this is a bad idea and it's causing me to have reservations. That is why I am seeking advise from those who are more knowledgeable.

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    BigBrownDog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfriend76 View Post
    Hi, Thanks for the question.

    This would be a co-ownership situation for breeding purposes only. I do not show, nor do I have the desire to show, the breeder would like to have the option of studding him out in the future. She did say that 6 months is too early for neutering him and that it would "stunt" his growth. More than anything I am receiving advise from family who thinks this is a bad idea and it's causing me to have reservations. That is why I am seeking advise from those who are more knowledgeable.
    This sounds to me like a back yard breeder. No reputable breeder would want to co-own a male for breeding purposes that they did not intend to show. Successfully showing a dog (or competing in some other venue like hunt trials or obedience) proves the worthiness of that dog to be bred. Only the best examples should be used for breeding - not just any nice looking dog with a penis.

    This is not someone I would buy a puppy from - co-own or not.

    Neutering at 6 months does not "stunt" the growth - it makes the dog grow taller as the growth plates close more slowly. So, she has that wrong too. It also places the dog at somewhat increased risk of orthopedic problems down the road. Allowing the dog to grow up fully (18 months) allows them to develop normally.
    Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.

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    cfriend76 is offline Junior Member
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    So let me make sure I have this correct...showing the dog or competition of some form are the ONLY reasons for wanting to breed & anyone else who breeds labs, that does not intend to do either, is a back yard breeder??? I did not say that the breeder does not show or does not provide people with show dogs, only that I do not intend to show. I did ALOT of research before choosing my breeder and received a lot of recommendations from the surrounding community, even calling owners who have bought from her, and I am 100% positive that I am NOT purchasing from a BYB but thank you for the concern. My question was not whether I am purchasing from a "reputable" breeder but more about the co-owner arrangement. I thought maybe if there were others who had experience with this type of situation could lend some helpful advise.

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    BigBrownDog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfriend76 View Post
    So let me make sure I have this correct...showing the dog or competition of some form are the ONLY reasons for wanting to breed & anyone else who breeds labs, that does not intend to do either, is a back yard breeder??? I did not say that the breeder does not show or does not provide people with show dogs, only that I do not intend to show. I did ALOT of research before choosing my breeder and received a lot of recommendations from the surrounding community, even calling owners who have bought from her, and I am 100% positive that I am NOT purchasing from a BYB but thank you for the concern. My question was not whether I am purchasing from a "reputable" breeder but more about the co-owner arrangement. I thought maybe if there were others who had experience with this type of situation could lend some helpful advise.
    Hey - I asked if this was to be a show dog and you said no. If the breeder intends to show him - that is a legit reason to co-own. And yes - only dogs who have proven their value to contribute to the betterment of the breed (via conformation, obedience or some similar venue) should be chosen to reproduce their genes. The shelters are chock full of Labs and there is no need for breeders using less than excellent proven, health cleared specimens except to turn a buck.

    If I got it wrong here I am sorry - but I can't read your mind over the internet. I responded to what you wrote.

    And, if you really want to reach others who are either breeders or who co-own - post your question in Lab Chat - Introductions is not heavily visited.
    Last edited by BigBrownDog; 06-20-2011 at 06:04 PM.
    Sharon, Blaise and Diesel.

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    Tanya is offline Senior Member
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    To answer your question - I would want tto read the contract over (and READ, no oral agrements here). Who pays for regular vet bills, who pays for the clerances, who brings him to get the clearances, when and how would semen be collected, who pays and shows him in whatever venue they compete in, how much heads up would you get prior to all the stuff I just mentionned, WHEN do you get half the stud fee, how do you get paid. Can he be neutered when he is done studding and who pays.

    An intact will only have behavioral issues if you as the owner do not put in the work to train them. they can be great family pets. BUT you do have the EXTRA responsibility day to day to ensure he is properly under control/contained and does not "accidentily" get another dog pregnant. marking is another training issue

    Co-ownerships are usually reserved for people breeders know very well. they can be great relationships just like they can go bad fast (which is why it should be reserved for people who know each other). I admit for a breeder to willy nilly tell a stranger they will let htem have this dog if the dog is going to be a stud (again, because generally the dog would need to proven in some venue which is owrk for the breeder who has to pick up the dog or for the buyer) and the cost of the clerances.

    I assume this breeder has all the clearances on both parents (hips, elbows, eyes, heart, CMN, EIC)?

    Quote Originally Posted by cfriend76 View Post
    So let me make sure I have this correct...showing the dog or competition of some form are the ONLY reasons for wanting to breed & anyone else who breeds labs, that does not intend to do either, is a back yard breeder???
    Actually - yes. with the exeption that "showing" to me woudl include hunt/field/conformation events.
    So "if" the breeder wants you to raise the dog and she only goes over (or has him over) to collect the semen, then yes, that is not a sign of a good/ethical breeder.
    Charlie (foster) and Rocky

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    cfriend76 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the information, yes both parents have their clearances. So breeders who sell labs on a limited registration basis, for pet homes are also unethical? I am pretty sure that most people that purchase from a breeder are not buying to show or breed theirselves...I don't think that makes the breeder somehow unethical or a BYB because they want to offer good quality pet labs to people. But I do thank you for the little bit of advise I was given on the subject.

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    Tanya is offline Senior Member
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    no, there seems to be a miscommunication here. Yes, a breeder should sell to pet homes on limited registration and request pets be spayed/neutered at an appropriate age.

    however, if you co-own a stud dog, that dog would need all their clerances (so like I said, you need to know who pays and how the arrangements to bring in the dog for their clerances go (who drives there and pays for gas, for the apointment, this could mean time off work, etc) and what happens if the dog DOES NOT PASS their clerances, which is ALWAYS a possibility).

    Furthermore, it is about MORE than just clearances, a good/ethical breeder proves their dogs in some venue prior to breeding. Like I said, this can be conformaion, field or hunt tests but some venue. otherwise, they are a so-so breeder doing things half right.

    SO what the reply above ment to say was IF you have a co-own dog that is used to stud and this dog NEVER competes in any venue (is strictly a pet) then this reflects badly on teh breeding practices of the breeder in question. If you have no interest in showing/competing with the dog this means the breeder should be picking up the dog to bring him to competitions.

    Honestly, I say go with the other puppy and forget the co-own. my two cents
    Charlie (foster) and Rocky

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