Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules
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Thread: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

  1. #1
    Kzunell is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultChanges in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    What does everyone think of the proposed changes to AKC hunt tests/firld trials?

    1 No more walk ups
    2 no poison birds on blinds
    3 retiring gunners and throwers
    4 allowing CKC dogs to run in AKC firld trials
    5 requiring new judges to apprentice for a set time.

    Kelly and Amber and Ready
    Kelly and Greenwoods Amber Wave CD RA OA NAJ OF WC CGC CL1-F SW<br />Chino CA<br /><br /><br />

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  3. #2
    CaliforniaLabLover's Avatar
    CaliforniaLabLover is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    I don't know enough to understand the positives/negatives to these (esp. the first 3), but I would think it should go without saying that Canadian KC dogs should be allowed to compete in any AKC performance events. I wasn't aware this wasn't the case with hunt tests and field trials. Also sounds like a great idea to require a certain time for "apprenticeship" as long as there are a certain number of events you need to be at within that set time (for instance, just waiting out the time period without overseeing/watching/participating in any events doesn't make any sense to me).

    ~Julie, Rogue, Monty, and Eddy~

    "The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue." -Anon

  4. #3
    imported_2Labpups is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    1 No more walk ups

    The hunt tests are in place to assimilate an actual hunting situation. While in a field hunting with your dog, you don't get to signal for the birds, it just happens and is similar to a walk up. Not a fan of this change.

    2 no poison birds on blinds

    The whole poison bird is based on your relationship with your dog and the team work. Your dog is "supposed" to handle where you handle it to go. IMOP, it's a trick for the dog. I am for this

    3 retiring gunners and throwers

    Are they wanting retired gunners and throwers? My dogs always find the live bird box no matter what :whatever:

    4 allowing CKC dogs to run in AKC Field trials

    I think CKC should run AKC tests, money is money and the AKC is a business.

    5 requiring new judges to apprentice for a set time.

    Not a fan. The judging pool is so small as it is.
    Donna, slave to Gidget and Lucy Lou<br />Gidget, CGC, JH, SH&nbsp; &nbsp; Lucy, CGC, JH, SH<br />

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  6. #4
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    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    Walk ups can be a lot of fun. They already took the gun away at JH so we could better control our young dogs, and I felt that was a good move but to take walk ups away may be stretching it.

    Poison birds. More of a MH level thing from what I see. I've only run thru SH, but the concept of it is silly, imo.

    Retired gunners. Not at JH, I hope. I think there is enough to scare young dogs out there w/o coming upon a gunstation with people "hiding" in there. I saw a few young ones at the last JH tests that really got spooked, and if they aren't spooked, it often causes them to lose their focus on their mark. There are enough factors to prepare for already w/o hiding the gunners (though admit, this is becoming a more popular trend by the newer judges).

    CKC/AKC. No opinion there as I don't do field trials.

    More strict apprenticeship req for judges-- I am for that. I've seen our hrt judging go to pot in recent years. We have people judging who have never trained a dog to JH themselves. If you don't go thru the process yourself, you never learn about factors and how they will influence the dogs running the test. Some are not abiding by the regs already in print and new judges are but mere puppets on a string to the level 8's they are paired with. Contrast hrt judging w/ obed judging and you'll find hrt judging reqs to be a joke. I've had to start a "don't enter under" list which is sad, especially at the JH level, but after you see the ridiculous things happen time after time w/ some of these judges, that's the only way the clubs get the point it seems.



    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

  7. #5
    imported_2Labpups is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by birdbrainz
    More strict apprenticeship req for judges-- I am for that. I've seen our hrt judging go to pot in recent years. We have people judging who have never trained a dog to JH themselves. If you don't go thru the process yourself, you never learn about factors and how they will influence the dogs running the test.
    Great points. Instead of the longer apprentice time maybe send the current judges back to a seminar every 3 years or so?

    Contrast hrt judging w/ obed judging and you'll find hrt judging reqs to be a joke.
    Agree here however hunt test judges and field trial judges are all volunteer, the most you get is a $50 gift certificate to Cabela's or equivalent, IF you judge a back to back, if you judge one day you get $25 gift cert. Correct me if I am wrong but don't OB and Conformation Judges get paid?
    Donna, slave to Gidget and Lucy Lou<br />Gidget, CGC, JH, SH&nbsp; &nbsp; Lucy, CGC, JH, SH<br />

  8. #6
    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    Yes, obed and conformation judges are paid, but it is virtually nothing for the obed judges due to low entries. Costs to get that far are very high... I have a good friend who is both obed/rally and conformation (limited breeds) and he's spent a LOT of money to get to the judges education seminars, do apprenticeships all over the country, etc.. I don't think unless a person can judge at least an entire group, maybe 2, that they recoup their expenses and I really dont think obed judges ever do. I was licensed to judge JH and SH until recently as I didn't go to my seminar this year (so I believe I'm out now). As it is, w/ all the clubs ~150 miles from here, they can opt for locals w/o lodging and travel expenses easily enough, and besides, I'm almost always running a dog somewhere myself w/all the venues I'm doing/attempting so time isn't that plentiful at the moment.

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

  9. #7
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    Dani is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    I don't know too much about the walk ups...and it's for the levels beyond where I can train at, so I don't know how to feel about it. I would love to be able to have control like that though. I can't say much more about the rest of them, because in general, I am still so new to this (only having competed in UKC and the WC tests so far).
    Dani, Rider & Rookie
    SHR Watson's Safari Rider, JH, WC, CL1-R, RA, CGC, TDI
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  10. #8
    imported_2Labpups is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by birdbrainz
    Yes, obed and conformation judges are paid, but it is virtually nothing for the obed judges due to low entries. Costs to get that far are very high... I have a good friend who is both obed/rally and conformation (limited breeds) and he's spent a LOT of money to get to the judges education seminars, do apprenticeships all over the country, etc..I don't think unless a person can judge at least an entire group, maybe 2, that they recoup their expenses and I really dont think obed judges ever do.
    I feel for your friend. I flew to Sacremento, paid my own airfare, my hotel room, meals, rental car and paid for the judge's seminar and haven't recouped much of my costs. I apprenticed last fall and judged Oct and Feb.


    I was licensed to judge JH and SH until recently as I didn't go to my seminar this year (so I believe I'm out now).
    I bet they would let you attend a seminar whenever there is one nearby and reinstate you.

    As it is, w/ all the clubs ~150 miles from here, they can opt for locals w/o lodging and travel expenses easily enough, and besides, I'm almost always running a dog somewhere myself w/all the venues I'm doing/attempting so time isn't that plentiful at the moment.
    That's the problem we run into, everyone local that can judge, needs to run their dogs especially when a lot of people are trying to qualify for MNH.
    Donna, slave to Gidget and Lucy Lou<br />Gidget, CGC, JH, SH&nbsp; &nbsp; Lucy, CGC, JH, SH<br />

  11. #9
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    tkpaul is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Kzunell

    1 No more walk ups
    2 no poison birds on blinds
    3 retiring gunners and throwers
    4 allowing CKC dogs to run in AKC firld trials
    5 requiring new judges to apprentice for a set time.
    1. What level are walk-ups? Senior or Master or both? UKC/HRC still includes walk-ups on their hunt tests. I would hate to see this element of training go by the wayside. I know there was some discussion in HRC to change some elements of seasoned.

    2. A matter of training. Are you able to handle your dog off a mark to a blind. Critical element of training for real use in the field. Say you and a buddy shoot 3 ducks. Your dog marks the two that feel dead. The bird he doesn't see is a cripple. Your need to be able to get him off the marks and on to the cripple before you lose that bird.

    3. Retired gunners/birdboys. Mute point. There so much stuff (popper stand, winger, bird bag/crate, ice chests) there already, it doesn't matter. Having the gunner retire is not going to matter in a hunt test. It's not like the dogs can't see the blind. Threw birds this past weekend for Juniors at Sooner Retriever Club hunt test and every dog I threw for looked me in the eye at 60 yd water mark, 85 yd land mark, and in flyer station. Having me go crawl in a blind is not going to matter at that point.

    4. Don't care. If it means more entries and more financial support for the hosting club, then come on down, eh?

    5. Don't know about policy for judging, logic says not set time but should have to apprentice a certain number of events in determined time frame.

  12. #10
    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Changes in AKC Hunt Test Rules

    Well here's the thing about retired gunners that maybe you haven't considered, TKPaul. We had a water test a couple weeks ago, and if you were down at the dog's level, they couldn't see the blind set up as it was behind a stand of cattails until the dog was nearly 3/4 to the mark. The young dog running test dog (belonging to a level 8 JH/SH judge), "ready" but otherwise green, had the you-know-what scared out of him to see that gun station there when he cleared the cattails. I've seen it happen many times. Sure, you can train for it, if you are LUCKY enough to have a big group to train with. Those of us living in the boonies often don't, so we do the best we can to prep for all the hoopla we can. Most of our young dogs are tuned into the nice gun slinging men wearing hats and it's a bit of comfort to them to not have a surprise of folks hiding behind a blind. It also comes into play when, like at the Natls last year, the first live flier was shot, and landed into the water below a dike that the dog had to cross. So you're at the line w/ your almost 12 mos old... dog is getting her first live flier duck EVER, reaches the dike, climbs DOWN into the water to the live flier that YOU can't see (and hence, your YOUNG dog is also out of site). I sure appreciated the fact that the gunner was visible as the gunner was solely responsible for making sure our dogs were safe. The fact he happened to be one of my puppy owners (my pup didn't know him at the time) also helped. I was entered knowing we weren't polished but Natls don't come this way but every 6 yrs or so and it was a gorgeous test and great experience despite her going out on her very last bird of the day as it was a dark bird, shot against dark trees, winds blowing hard away from us so no noise/duckcalls to be heard from the line!

    One thing I've learned over the years is restrictive rules are never good. They will paint some judges into corners at some point. And they are bound to hurt the young, green dogs that really need to have GOOD experiences at their first hunt tests.

    We used to have walk ups, with handler guns at JH until just recently. I know they took the guns away just recently to make it a bit easier on the JH handler to hold the dog. I haven't had one this season yet, so not sure if they still have that option at JH or not.

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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