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  1. #131
    Fallriver's Avatar
    Fallriver is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    A lot of the field trial people support our HTs by participating, judging and volunteering when they are not trialling or down south. Some will take their dogs straight to masters and some will run their young dogs in JH for the experience, but they do participate on some level. It was a good community.
    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

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  3. #132
    FDR
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by FallRiver
    A lot of the field trial people support our HTs by participating, judging and volunteering when they are not trialling or down south. Some will take their dogs straight to masters and some will run their young dogs in JH for the experience, but they do participate on some level. It was a good community.
    Most dog folks are good community. We readily invite HT people to train with us. They are much easier to work with because they have some dog training experiece and most are open to learning more. Many of the newer good handlers have come up through the HT ranks. Twenty-five years ago, many Field Trials were asking, "Where are the new younger folks going to come from?" That was answered by HT folks as many of them are now running Field Trials. One indiviual's dog earned his MH at 25 months of age. He wanted more of a challenge and today his dog is FC AFC. Hunt Testers have also been a great market for FT bred pups. Most that run AKC HT's have dogs from FT lines. I go to most retriever events in my area and HT's as a spectator to watch some of my dog's offspring run. When HTers talk with one another and talk about their dog's breeding, you never hear them say, mu dog is by such-and-such Master Hunter. What you will hear them say is, "my dog is by such-and-such FC AFC or NFC AFC or FC NAFC.

    If I could influence any of them it would be to look beyond titles and selected a stud or puppy from a titled dog that represents the breed well. I always recommend that they read the breed standard and to look at dogs more critically.

  4. #133
    windycanyon's Avatar
    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    Tatyana, do perservere. Not all "tastes" are represented equally on this forum or probably on any other. I played hooky out of meetings for a couple hours and had a great visit w/ a fellow lab club member this afternoon. She is primarily into conformation (her mom has been breeding for years), I am more into the performance end of it, but it ends up we not far off in our desires in our idea of a perfect dog. 8) I do think that if more folks showed a moderate, athletic lab, they'd win more but that's my opinion. And Fall River's comment on short upper arms has merit-- they should never be short (or straight)-- but then it's the overall dog that is to be judged, not parts and pieces.

    A good friend of mine is in Goldens btw. In their ring, they are severely penalized for excess weight. They seem to be coming back around to a more athletic specimen. And yes, I see the issue w/ GRs and water... heck, I'd not want to swim w/ all that coat weighting me down either! Coat has become excessive there, so has it in our ring... -Anne


    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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  6. #134
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    Tatyana, thank you for sharing those pictures. All of them are lovely dogs. Someone requested for pictures and you provided. I've always, always liked the look of Shamrock Acres Light Brigade and would be delighted to find myself ever lucky enough to have a lab that handsome.

    Let me ask you this then...if field trials and the physical ability to stand up to them are the only measure of a dog, then how are you breeding labrador retrievers and not just retrievers There are lots of retrievers...what makes a lab a lab if we do not adhere to the standard?
    Go check out the statistics for field trial entries and winnings. It is overwhelmingly labradors. There is a reason for that. There's a reason why so many hunters and competitors choose to go with a lab. Temperment, attitude, the way you approach your training with a typical speciman of the breed, these all differ between the 3 popular retriever breeds. Field labs may vary in looks and size, but on the whole have more in common to each other within their breed than with other breeds. If you took a FC Lab and a FC Chessie, you would have two dogs of different looks and temperment. If serious field folk were only breeding retrievers, you would only see a difference in the appearance of the breeds, but everything else would be the same.

  7. #135
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by FallRiver
    the disrespect for the all-breed judges
    Tatyana, it is not disrespect, it is disdain for their insistence on putting up dogs who possess the number one fault in our breed today, short upper arms. Not only do they ignore it, they purposely select for it and it is becoming a big problem.
    Actually, I don't think that's necessarily true. Donald Sturz, at my AB club show last September, gave a clinic on fronts and upper arms in the BOB ring. In that ring were four BISS dogs; Don said then that it was a tough decision, but it came down to shoulder assembly, specifically length of upper arm and layback.

    I know of a few other AB judges who are very particular about fronts as well.

  8. #136
    Fallriver's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    I know of a few other AB judges who are very particular about fronts as well.
    As do I and I make a point of supporting those judges. A few is not good enough in my books. One only has to look at the upper arms (and croups for that matter) of dogs who are doing a lot of winning in the all-breed ring to realize that not enough judges are giving enough consideration to fronts. If you read the article that I provided several pages ago 8), there is some good information in there that details why judges like to put up bad fronts and not just in our breed.
    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

  9. #137
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by FallRiver
    I know of a few other AB judges who are very particular about fronts as well.
    not enough judges are giving enough consideration to fronts. If you read the article that I provided several pages ago 8), there is some good information in there that details why judges like to put up bad fronts and not just in our breed.
    I will go back and check that article out. I just wanted to point out that there are a few judges who do the right thing. I'm trying to keep track of 'em, and that's who I demand we use for our show.

  10. #138
    WigWag Guest

    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    Not all "tastes" are represented equally on this forum or probably on any other.
    This is the CONFORMATION/SHOWING section so of course the majority that frequent these posts are those who prefer show bred dogs.

  11. #139
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    DefaultRe: Just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by WigWag
    Not all "tastes" are represented equally on this forum or probably on any other.
    This is the CONFORMATION/SHOWING section so of course the majority that frequent these posts are those who prefer show bred dogs.
    Conformation doesn't always equal show necessarily. I think anyone who does performance venues had better have a good grasp of conformation too. -Anne

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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