Back Ends on Labradors
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Thread: Back Ends on Labradors

  1. #1
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    DefaultBack Ends on Labradors

    I have been so surprised at the total contrast in the back ends of the dogs I've seen on this forum. I am assuming that most of these dogs are American (many from English Lines).

    They either seem to totally lack turn of stifle or have an exaggerated turn of stifle. There doesn't seem to be much in between.

    What do most breeders/exhibitors look for in this area when they choose a show pup?

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    CaliforniaLabLover is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    Having attended a ton of puppy evaluations at breeders' homes in the past year and a half, and listening to breeder-judges ringside at specialties, I would say that it depends on the dog.

    Most appear to look for at least moderate turn-of-stifle when it comes to searching out a stud-dog. I'm learning that it seems like many times, dogs with poor angles seem to pass that along, and those with good angles improve on angles of a bitch without angles...

    Regardless of how well-angulated or poor-angulated a dog/bitch is, though, being well-balanced front-to-back is the important thing in the ring, it seems.

    ~Julie, Rogue, Monty, and Eddy~

    "The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue." -Anon

  4. #3
    WigWag Guest

    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    I'm learning that it seems like many times, dogs with poor angles seem to pass that along, and those with good angles improve on angles of a bitch without angles...
    I don't see this as a trend at all. Individuals are individuals meaning that some dogs with a lot of rear angulation produce that consistently and some do not and conversely some with straight rears produce that consistently and some do not - also it all depends on the click between the two parents. Per example I do know of a stud dog with moderate rear angulation that consistently throws an over angulated rear.

    I think in this country we go for more rear angles than in Europe. I don't like a straight rear but I also don't like one that looks like a German Shepherd.

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    labby is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    I personally try to aim for a 'tweener. I don't want a lot of stifle angulation but I don't want straight either.







    Laura





  7. #5
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    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    OK rear question incoming!

    Why is it that sometimes I look at Ruby and she has a fantabulous rear and other times she looks straight, even if she appears to be standing the same way?

    OK, and a picture of her rear end!

  8. #6
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    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    Young dogs can take some time to settle on their rear and some like to stand with their hocks more under them...I dont' know how old Ruby is.
    Stifles are knee joints and sometimes humans lock our knees (like when we're tired) and sometimes we leave a little bend in them (like when we are anticipating moving) and dogs are the same so they can look very different in the rear.
    Like Laura, I like a moderate rear. I think that there are some over-angulated rears these days and we still haven't got the fronts we need and it looks very odd with sloping toplines and too much room under the dog with their front assembly too far forward and their rear assembly strangely too far back...it really wrecks the silhouette.
    Proper angulation is hard to get and even harder to hang on to. Many stud dogs are freaks in that they have wonderful angulation and then you look at the pedigree and the dogs behind them don't so I wouldn't like the odds of them passing it along. I not only want a dog with the angulation I am looking for, I want to see it behind him too, especially in the bitch line.
    Breed drift pulls dogs toward straight stifles, short upper arms and steep shoulders. I think we always have to be conscious of angulation or it can quickly be lost, especially those darn fronts
    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

  9. #7
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    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    I ran two male pups on until 11 weeks then rehomed this one. He just didn't have enough rear, even though I feel he was a fairly balanced pup. His head was nice at 8 weeks and went really bad as you can see in this picture. The dog I kept was balanced, had a much better thigh but was a bit long in the body.

    [attachment deleted by admin]

  10. #8
    CaliforniaLabLover's Avatar
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    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    Quote Originally Posted by WigWag
    I don't see this as a trend at all. Individuals are individuals meaning that some dogs with a lot of rear angulation produce that consistently and some do not and conversely some with straight rears produce that consistently and some do not - also it all depends on the click between the two parents. Per example I do know of a stud dog with moderate rear angulation that consistently throws an over angulated rear.
    I don't know...perhaps it is a California thing, but like I mentioned above "it seems like many times" a dog will pass along what he personally has? Most people here seem to breed to a dog with a lot of rear angle when a bitch is very straight. It doesn't seem like many out here (in CA) breed to dogs very often who are very straight in the rear themselves? Just personal (and region) things that I'm learning here...

    ~Julie, Rogue, Monty, and Eddy~

    "The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue." -Anon

  11. #9
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    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    There are a couple of widely used stud dogs here that have a particular back end that is easily identifiable in progeny. You can look at the pups and say "that's a XXXXX pup". One in particular, when stacked correctly with vertical hocks has his back feet in the next county. Most of the progeny seem to be the same regardless of the maternal influence (of course we only see the progeny that make it to the showring) Nice dogs but not a trait that I'd be perpetuating.

  12. #10
    WigWag Guest

    DefaultRe: Back Ends on Labradors

    Breed drift pulls dogs toward straight stifles, short upper arms and steep shoulders. I think we always have to be conscious of angulation or it can quickly be lost, especially those darn fronts
    I don't see this in Labradors. The dogs of the past have much less angulation than the dogs of today both fore and aft. When I look at the majority of specialty champions of say 30 years ago they consistently have upright upper arms, not as much forechest, and more moderate bend of stifle when compared to the majority of specialty dogs of today.

    Lindall Mastercraft




    Martin of Mardas


    Sandyland's Tweed of Blaircourt








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