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Thread: upper-arms

  1. #1
    pluto is offline Senior Member
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    Defaultupper-arms

    Could someone post pictoral description of a correct upper arm , and shoulder lay back in general

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  3. #2
    Fallriver's Avatar
    Fallriver is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    I think my boy has a good length of upper arm.



    I also have a girl with a shorter upper arm that I would like to improve



    It is easy to be deceived into thinking the upper arm is longer than it is when a dog has a nice forechest and brisket.

    The girl has a better shoulder layback than the boy though.

    The point of the shoulder blade should sit right above the elbow.  Also, the upper arm should be close to the length of the shoulde blade (scapula).  Lots of dogs with short upper arms and steep shoulders get put up by some all-breed judges and that is a pet peeve of mine as I think that if we as breeders let judges of other breeds pick our breeding stock, we are in trouble.  Lots of 'terrier fronts' in the show rings these days sadly.
    I have a pet boy with a bad front that got his championship in one weekend.  I'll try to find a pic of him for you.

    Here are a couple of articles which might help you:

    http://users.rcn.com/kschive/Fronts.html

    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

  4. #3
    Fallriver's Avatar
    Fallriver is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    Here he is. He is a wonderful pet and I love him, but bad front:



    Compare his length of neck to the other two dogs and that is your first clue that something is not right in the shoulders.
    Because his upper arm is so short and steep, his scapulae sit too far forward on his body and he is tied in at the elbows. As a result, he has just turned five and has severe elbow dysplasia, recurrent bicipital tendonitis and bursitis, and despite working on his OTCH and Master Hunter, he has to be retired as he is constantly lame.
    The sad part is, he LIVES to work and at this young age he can't anymore and stays at home while I work the other dogs.
    A wise breeder once said that it is unfair to breed the heart and desire into them when the structure can't withstand the punishment, and because of Simon, that will always be my breeding philosophy. We need to retain working ability and drive in these dogs, but we need the structure to stand behind it.
    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

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  6. #4
    nwlabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    I don't mind using my own dog. He is not perfect, but neither am!!

    He has a nice length of upper arm and shoulder layback. Ignore the vertical line. I used this pic once before to show compare him to a dog who was extremely upright and whose ears nearly lined up over his elbows.


  7. #5
    WigWag Guest

    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    Great posts ladies. I totally agree with your examples and your explanations.

    Fallriver - great examples of how a front has many components. So many will see a lot of keel and say "What a great front!" without taking into consideration shoulder layback, length of upper arm, and the front as a whole.


  8. #6
    Fallriver's Avatar
    Fallriver is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    Fronts are my favourite topic...easier to describe good fronts than to breed them though ;D
    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

  9. #7
    nwlabs is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    Quote Originally Posted by FallRiver
    Fronts are my favourite topic...easier to describe good fronts than to breed them though ;D
    Mine too dana!! LOL! I agree with you on describing vs producing them. Once you have a good front assembly you hold onto it for dear life.

  10. #8
    Fallriver's Avatar
    Fallriver is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    Once you have a good front assembly you hold onto it for dear life.
    LOL...Amen!! ;D ;D
    Dana


    To err is human:To forgive, canine."
    - Anonymous

  11. #9
    Tatyana is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    Great topic! I'm a "fan" of studying fronts, too (unfortunately because of the elbow dysplasia issue I'm dealing with with my dog). Here is a diagram that I made (by looking at a diagram in one of the books that I have). Dotted red lines represent the desirable angles. Note that the solid red line is not the correct line for evaluation of the front angles (from my understanding). Dotted green line represents the center of gravity for the front.


  12. #10
    pluto is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: upper-arms

    SO is this line drawing correct ??



    and could someone also go over the backs please!!

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