Really hypothetical question
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Thread: Really hypothetical question

  1. #1
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    DefaultReally hypothetical question

    A friend of mine bought a little girl puppy from a really well known breeder far away with plans on showing her and possibly breeding her with her first homebred boy who has his canadian championship.

    The puppy she bought is not on any type of co-own, just outright sold to her, though the breeders had no idea who my friend is.

    Thing is, the puppy didn't work out. She is horrible, both in temperment and structure. From the Sr Puppy class she was excused for growling at the judge...and has been this way from 8 weeks old, literally crawling on her belly into show dog class at 12 weeks.

    How does my friend go about telling this world renowned breeder that the puppy she had waited nearly 2 years for is ruining her life, marriage and house?

    What would you do? This is still a very young puppy, just 11 months now.

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    Dawson Creek Girl's Avatar
    Dawson Creek Girl is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    I think honesty is the best policy.* If she was sold on a breeding/showing contract and is not up to par the breeder should be told.* I know approaching the subject won't be easy.. but afterall, the puppy did not meet the expectations of your friend.* If the breeder isn't made aware of the problem then nothing will change or can be done.

    Good luck!

    •*´¯`*•.¸¸.•Patti•*´¯`*•.¸¸.•


  4. #3
    WigWag Guest

    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    Well I would have no problems whatsoever.* I would call the breeder and explain that she is not working out for reasons described.* I would try to be unemotional and lay it out simply.* I would then tell her/him that I want to place the dog out.* I guess I would not be thinking that the breeder would get angry at me or angry that this happened or that I would run and tell everyone.* It's plain to see what is going on at a dog show and I would think the breeder would want the dog placed out so people won't keep seeing the bitch in the ring.


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  6. #4
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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    I agree any good breeder would appreciate it if you came to him/her first regarding your problem rather then start to give him a bad name publically , furthermore everyone makes errors in judgement and things dont always work out , we all have seen some average dogs from top breeders ( it is basically the law of averages) . A good breeder will also be willing to place out this dog to a appropriate home and would be willing to help your friend out in the future . That is what a good responsible breeder would do . REMEMBER just because he is breeding or owning champiions he isnt a top breeder , there are many responsibilities that come with being a distinguished breeder and sometimes there are people who own the best of dogs and bitches , produce the best dogs but are not what you'd call the most ethical or responsible breeders . I have been invlolved with GSD's since i was a kid and we have bought dozens of dogs from top german breeders and it is amazing how unethical some of the top german houses can be ( selling average dogs with hype and at high cost) . Most good breeders that we've bought dogs from actually take time to study the DOG scene in my neck of the woods and tell me very frankly how their dog shapes up to the standard of dogs , and these arent always the top breeders but some very distinguished small scale breeders . A good breeder will think beyond " Oh its a rearing problem and lack of socialization therefore quit bothering me" and would be more then willing to work with the owner of a 1 in a 40 or 1 in a 50 case where he has made a judgment error where the result of his proposed show quality has been severly wrong .

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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    Call the breeder, explain the recent events. I take it that person in question has been sending pictures and reports regularly? The breeder is aware that the puppy is not bloosoming in the new buyers house but in fact, wilting? Beyond the quality of the dog and more so, the temperament/attitude, if this dog is ruining her life, and her marriage is in danger(and assuming she likes her spouse), no question, the dog goes back to the breeder.
    In future, GO to see the litter you are getting a pup from. Even if travel is envolved, even if its WORLD reknown breeder, GO. If they don't know you from squant and you aren't fimiliar with their homelife and kenneling for the dogs...what you see in the show ring is only 1/3 the deal when looking for a potential brood bitch.
    If the breeder doubts the situation, they should make arrangements for a third trusted party to assess the dog and its attitude.

  8. #6
    Canyon Labradors's Avatar
    Canyon Labradors is offline Senior Member
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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    Interesting question and interesting answers.

    There are so many possibilities here. Was the pup sold as a show potential pup? You know there are NO GUARANTEES no matter if you get a pup from the TOP male and female of the country. A show pup that was no sold on a contract makes me really wonder the quality of the dog. My experience is that you either get a show pup from a great breeder who puts a contract out on the pup or you get it from a friend/fellow lab person. I ended up getting mine from a friend who did not require the contract of me, yet every other breeder that I was considering and on a list for a pup required contracts if I got a show pup. So it makes me wonder if this pup was really sold as a top quality show potential pup.

    Temperment is a quality breeders strive for, but it doesn't mean that a pup will have that temperment, nor does it mean that a pup will actually ENJOY the ring. Not all dogs are born to be show dogs, even the most beautiful specimen might be a loving dog in the home and HATE the ring. I think the breeder should be told that the temperment is not up to par, but the owner also has to take part of the blame...I highly believe in nurture....you never know what happened to this pup. Even if it was not intentioned.

    What to do about this? I can't believe the dog is ruining her life, marriage and home, it sounds so overly-dramatic. I guess for me, if that was the case and I really thought my puppy had no heart for the ring or the looks...I would spay the animal and concentrate on obedience and fixing the temperment issues. Others might spay the animal and rehome with a pet-home.

    I agree with PirateLabs though, these people need to be told that next time they need to visit the breeder. I am thinking, even if there are no pups on the ground, the breeder needs to know you. I don't know who this World reknown breeder is, but I can tell you from my small world of quality breeders in CA, NO ONE would talk to me until after I met them, told them of my involvement in the local lab club and provided numerous references from long-time reputable breeders in the area. And then I was only going to get 3 or 4th pick out of a litter because they were all keeping the best pups for themselves and their breeder friends. I only lucked out with my breeder as she had 2 litters at once, and she wanted a black bitch pup which she got from the other litter, leaving the show pick chocolate bitch from the other litter for me. I wouldn't trust any breeder I didn't know personally to not send me just any pup from the litter....I really hope these people didn't pay a premium for this pup!


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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    Actually this pup was one of two the breeder picked as payment for selling a bitch (mother of puppies). My friend did drive up to see the puppy twice and was worried about her temperment then, as she was and still is VERY quiet. But the breeder reassured her that everything would turn out, she was just stressed from making such a long trip....if it were me, I wouldn't have even taken her in the first place.

    She just found out that the male the breeder also kept has been placed in a pet home. I don't think that this breeder really cared that the puppy would be out and about showing because we are so far away, and my friend is a virtual NOBODY.

    No there is no guarentee that this pup would work out, obviously. She doesn't even want the pup replaced. Yes, she has been updating the breeder with photos and told them that she was excused from the ring. Which got a reply of 'maybe she doesn't like the show ring'??? She won't spay and place her because she is mean I think that if they don't keep her, she will be PTS.

    Which in my opinion, a puppy with such severe problems cannot be helped.

    And for those who PM'd me...for Heaven's sake, no this is NOT Ruby...anyone who has met her can attest to that!


  10. #8
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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    Hi
    If the bitch is that bad that the owner thinks she needs to be put down, she certainly should tell the breeder that. I would be royally pissed off if a buyer of mine did this without informing me of it. I got a bit lost about the two pick puppies were payment for selling a bitch(the mother of the puppies?? sorry Melissa, it was a confusing statement).
    Guess its a lesson learned the hard way, breeding stock and show puppies need to be happy, confident individuals.

  11. #9
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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    The puppy that my friend got was pick female of a litter out of a bitch that the breeder sold, with the stipulation of pick male and female back. The breeder also had the boy, but placed him in a pet home.

    She does have other labs, as I said, all with the confident LOOK I AM A LAB temperment, but not this lady.

  12. #10
    JP
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    DefaultRe: Really hypothetical question

    I personally find it amazing that things have been allowed to get this far out of hand. You mentioned this person wanted the bitch for a possible mating with their homebred champion dog - we are not talking about a first time pet owner? Surely someone with enough know-how to breed and campaign a champion (unless it was a fluke) knew what they were dealing with while this pup was growing up? No flaming, I'm just trying to understand here...

    Has everything just recently come to a head? If a young Lab was capable of ruining my life, my marriage and my house, I would seriously question the solidity of those institutions. Only your friend knows where she stands with her life and her marriage but there are relatively effective solutions for destructive pups and I can see no reason for allowing her house to be vandalised. If your friend is out of her depth, she may need help with that pup. The breeder should undoubtedly be aware of the situation.

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