Hello everyone. I would like to hear your opinions about the best producing English type dogs that are currently influencing the breed standard. In other words, what are some of the dogs breeders are falling overthemselves to be able to claim in their own line? Any information as to what these dogs are offering to the standard would be appreciated as well. Thanks!
Curious, why are you asking? How do you define best producing? Why do you care if other breeders are rushing to use a particular dog?
Not that it wouldn't be an interesting discussion, but you surely would never want to follow them over the cliff, or is this purely a hypothetical question? Dangerous either way to analyze current studs on a public forum, maybe you should talk to breeders individually. You probably won't get many replies on here because such a discussion could get inflammatory.
I don't think a particular current dog influences the breed standard, the standard hasn't changed in a number of years. Now what wins in the show ring, what is the current fad, is a different story.
In terms of past great dogs, CH Dickendall Arnold was unquestioningly very influential on breed and occasionally frozen semen litters are still produced from him. Hard to find a pedigree without him now, he was a very good producer of show stock.
Last edited by ThreeTs; 08-26-2010 at 05:54 PM.
I am new to labradors (I come for a German Shepherd background). I would like to buy a puppy in the near future, and I want to learn as much as I can about pedigrees before I talk with breeders. I would like to be able to ask educated questions about why they did this and that and where they are headed. I can do research online and find dogs that have won important titles. I can even see which dogs have the most offspring. I can pour over publish pedigrees, but all this means little unless I can understand what it was in the dogs that was so special. Plus, I know there are many more dogs who are influential but are harder for someone like me to find. When I am considering which puppy to buy, I would like to be able to have some idea of what the breeder is talking about when they show me their pedigrees.
I realize this is probably a loaded question with many variables- but at this point, any information is helpful to me. We all have to start somewhere.
I will tell you one thing, what is winning the most and what is healthiest and closest to the breed standard are not necessarily in the same dog currently.
Don't know about other breeds but titles are not that meaningful in labs unless they are completely absent in most of the pedigree, then it might indicate a breeder that does nothing with their dogs or dogs that are not being selected for conformation or performance at all.
With current labs what makes a particular dog specialty winning material usually boils down to "Head, Coat, Tail" ideally with decent structure and lots of bone and weight. Head, coat and tail are the main type attributes special to a Lab, head shape and eye color, thick tight coat, and otter tail of the right length. There are now show bred labs that are very heavily built, as well as show bred labs that are so called "moderate." Moderate sadly isn't winning right now.
Which dogs are popular depends on what part of the country you are in.
I've been looking for a puppy for a year and a half, rarely has a Lab breeder wanted to talk to me at length about why a particular dog is in the pedigree, even when asked (two breeders, that's it). The breeder may not even know much about the popular dog other than what can be seen in a photo.
If you keep studying the stuff you already are and looking at photos and going to shows you will eventually be able to see why people are breeding to certain dogs whether you agree with it or not.
Be wary of breeders using prelims as clearances and missing elbow clearances on parents (nowadays in show stock this usually means the dog failed, but some breeders don't mind, including some of the winning-est). Have you studied all of the possible health problems in Labs? They are myriad. My first show prospect puppy is a health disaster, she has TVD and is unlikely to see 3, if you don't already know what TVD is then forget studying winning dogs for a while, study all the possible inherited problems plaguing the breed, it will be an eye opener.
If you go to the Labrador Retriever Club website you can find an illustrated judges review that is neat, and can order an illustrated standard, to try and figure out what conformation points are desirable in a Lab.
You might find more people willing to talk to you if you provide an email address, rather than public forum discussion.
Last edited by ThreeTs; 08-26-2010 at 09:14 PM.
I'd just echo the above-- my first thought when I read the OP's post was "define Best producing"? Take a look at the Golden breed if you are unsure what i'm asking. Health (first and foremost) should be held far higher than so many seem to hold it, but instead, what is winning in the ring seems to be dominating too many folks' breeding decisions. JMO, which often isn't popular, I realize. Anne
This is Laurel, my username is ThreeTs.
Puff [YF, AKC field line (from competing HT/FT breeder) 62 lbs, dob: 8-'01]
Bess [BF, AKC bench line (from competing show breeder) 55 lbs., 1967-1981] "Poor Bess, the Wonder Dog":
No one name just isn't enough, I have three dozen aliases so I can troll the net posting trollish things about all the problems the breed is facing today. But I digress from the OP's original inquiry...
To the OP, I hope you can get some more experienced people willing to talk to you more about what to look for in your puppy search. My learning curve has been steep, that's for sure. Sticking with well-known kennels and popular dogs is not enough anymore, if it ever was. Good luck.