Understand E-Collar Training

[gundog]

That's not fun? whod'of thought it. :-[

got to love sarcasm

OK…..no sarcasm.

ANYONE who put’s a shock collar on a dogs genitals should have one put on THEIR genitals. Is that clear enough?

[luke from georgia]

behaviors are driven by punishment and rewards, which can be subjective, and what one individual considers unpleasant, another individual may find pleasant or be indifferent. the context and timing of the stimulus is also a factor in the effectiveness of the punishment or reward. i'm talking about the individual on the receiving end of the punishment or reward.

behaviors that repeat are ones that are reinforced by rewards. behaviors that cease or decrease are ones that are driven by punishment.

the fact of the matter is that ecollars function as a tool that primary uses punishment, specifically using positive punishment, where something unpleasant is ADDED to the behavior in order to decrease the occurrence of that behavior. "positive" means something is added, and "negative" means something is taken away. the electric stim doesn't have to be painful, but it must be sufficiently unpleasant in order to achieve a reaction and behavior change. we can think of the stim as a "tap on the shoulder, " but that tap must be sufficiently unpleasant or undesirable or else there is no point in tapping.

ecollars are also used as negative reinforcement to drive behaviors, where the electricity is first added as positive punishment and then removed when the dog performs a behavior you want to reinforce.

for example, when a dog ignores a recall, the ecollar is used as positive punishment by adding electricity to the unwanted behavior of ignoring the recall. when the dog offers compliance with the recall, negative reinforcement is at play, where the electricity is removed for the behavior of coming back.

the ecollar's function and effectiveness is in being a punishment tool to decrease the occurrence of undesirable behaviors. with this tool, there is no way to utilize negative reinforcement without first applying positive punishment. the dog's behavior of coming when called is not being reinforced, so much as the dog's behavior of ignoring the recall is being punished. same difference? no, it's not. this has nothing to do with love. there is no need to be defensive. the most cherished and loved dog in the world may be trained with an ecollar, so don't be blind to how ecollar works, how to use this tool correctly, or fail to understand why it works when it works.

rational discussions about ecollar are nearly impossible become egos get bruised, opinions clash, and insults are taken where they were never intended. as for sarcasm, it can be a light hearted way of offering a hard truth.

[luke from georgia]

i know that every dog and every person is different. it's not always easy to obtain consistant obedience in all situations.

the average pet owner usually doesn't seek the kind of high level commitment from their dogs where strict obedience is an important component of their relationship, nor are they willing to make such a commitment to their dogs. they are perfectly content to live day to day, simply enjoying their dogs as companions, family members, or friends, taking distractions and each others mistakes in stride. it's a good life for both owner and dog. then, there are others who strive towards something more than companionship.

i choose not to use ecollars. it doesn't make me a better person nor a kinder, more loving dog owner, but i do have my own opinions about this topic.

there is great value in developing a connection with dogs beyond leashes and remote control collars, but we have to make the commitment and an effort to really get to know the dog and listen to them as much as we want them to listen to us. focus your energy in helping the dog discover the rewards of working with you, where he doesn't feel helpless to do otherwise. work on having the kind of relationship and a bond with your dog where you don't have to tap his shoulder to get his attention. his attention will already be waiting for you.

[riarcher]

I am going to reply as nice as I can. I take real offense to people who believe that I might be hurting my dog. When people use the works like electrocute or pain they are putting the assumption that I am hurting my dog(s). What I can tell you is my dog is no more being hurt than most people who put a flat collar on the dog and they allow the dog to choke themselves to heaving. I understand when people say they look stressed, but they look just like a dog would look at me if I was holding a t-bone too.

Now this is a topic that i do get defensive about because I could not love my dogs anymore then I do, even if I tried. If you knew me and my family you would know that both of my Girls are my kids and I would never do anything to hurt them. What I can tell you is why don't you ask one of those trainers to go out and give you a demo? Not to mention they are always out with the humane society doing demos too.

Careful, you're getting close to an argumentative, exasperating discussion.

Besides, what's wrong with electrocuting a mutt's genitals?
I learned here that the neck is the most sensitive spot on a dog's anatomy!

72 post later,,, the "debate" seems a stalemate.
Back to working with my rescued Lab. (it's much more productive, enjoyable, and rewarding). And yes, he has the e-collar on.

[Tatyana]

I learned here that the neck is the most sensitive spot on a dog's anatomy!

I believe you're referring to my comment. However, you need to read with more attention. I said: neck is "the most sensitive area on the dog's body that is also the most convenient for placement of the e-collar." It was not an absolute statement; it was qualified.