Moody arrogant Male Lab Crate question

[theoconbrio]

Gosh, they are cute.

"Clicker training" is just a formalized approach to operant conditioning that makes extensive use of a "marker" or "secondary reinforcer" to a primary reinforcer (usually for Labs that's food!). The "click" of the clicker marks the precise moment at which the dog delivers the desired behavior; it then forms a bridge between the time the behavior occurs and you can reward it. Over time the click itself becomes rewarding, because it's always paired with a strong reinforcer like food (or tug, or something the dog really really likes). With a good trainer you can do amazing things. Personally, I found that I did not have good timing with the clicker and kept dropping it, and so I do much better with voice marks.

There are other valuable tools for a trainer's toolbox, especially a novice trainer--lure and reward (especially for puppies), conditioning, and judicious (and infrequent) use of correction. I tend to look for a trainer who isn't rigid about using the clicker, but knows the technique and principles and and blends them into a form of training that is fun and positive and targeted toward each dog-person pair. Sometimes rigidly "positive-only" trainers, who have hypersensitive dogs like border collies, don't understand how insensitive and single-minded Labs can be, especially Lab puppies. Sometimes you have to give a correction just to get their attention. If the trainer thinks you're going to traumatize a Lab by giving a little correction, that probably won't work out. At the other extreme, beware "K-9" trainers who believe that all dogs are trying to dominate people and need to be punished constantly for infractions.

Ultimately, you just have to ask around for recommendations and sit in on some classes. A good trainer won't mind letting you watch a class or two, and if you see a trainer doing anything to a dog that you wouldn't feel comfortable having them do to your dog, then avoid them.

[Belles mom]

All excellent advice!

I have raised litter mates before, and currently. Have three 11 week olds. Two I kept for myself, and keeping another until the family can take him. It IS a disproportionate amount of work compared to raising one! kine do get to play together, but during down time and night, and feeding tney are separated. They are trained separately also.

As far as the training, each dog will learn at it's own rate. With the last two siblings I raised (Kodi and Hoss), Hoss often was on "dial-up" speed in training, and Kodi on High speed broad-band in training. Both are accomplished in what they have done in obedience (see my signature), just took different training and time.

[BigBrownDog]

Well we were having success but it seem's the moody one is back to the same old stuff. I've talked to trainers and had them observe me and the dog and they say he'll grow out of it and than again may not.

We've followed everything to a T in respect to suggestions here and from our vet and another. The female / sister is picking up training like no tomorrow, same amount of time and training for both of them, we know that dogs can sense things in humans. I've trained the female to do the same thing that the male was taught with my son right there to make sure I am not changing anything and its not working.

Gonna read some more and talk to some other people this week and see what I may be doing wrong.

I think you need to be more patient and keep working with him. Your first post in this thread was on 1/7 and today is 1/23. So - it's been 16 days. I would not expect to quickly undo the problems that occurred in allowing them to become mutually dependant for many weeks before you tried a new approach. The female is responding quickly but just because the male has not does not mean he won't - you just need to be persistent, firm, consistent and make training with him fun!

And maybe he should have even less time with her until he is reformed.

[SharonaZamboni]

Clicker training can be great. The things that I've taught Bean using a clicker are very solid, he always responds. I don't use the clicker all of the time, but plan to increase my use of it, since it works well with my dog. It can take some practice to get the timing right and to hold the treats while clicking.

[michaelbb]

Gosh, they are cute.

"Clicker training" is just a formalized approach to operant conditioning that makes extensive use of a "marker" or "secondary reinforcer" to a primary reinforcer (usually for Labs that's food!). The "click" of the clicker marks the precise moment at which the dog delivers the desired behavior; it then forms a bridge between the time the behavior occurs and you can reward it. Over time the click itself becomes rewarding, because it's always paired with a strong reinforcer like food (or tug, or something the dog really really likes). With a good trainer you can do amazing things. Personally, I found that I did not have good timing with the clicker and kept dropping it, and so I do much better with voice marks.

There are other valuable tools for a trainer's toolbox, especially a novice trainer--lure and reward (especially for puppies), conditioning, and judicious (and infrequent) use of correction. I tend to look for a trainer who isn't rigid about using the clicker, but knows the technique and principles and and blends them into a form of training that is fun and positive and targeted toward each dog-person pair. Sometimes rigidly "positive-only" trainers, who have hypersensitive dogs like border collies, don't understand how insensitive and single-minded Labs can be, especially Lab puppies. Sometimes you have to give a correction just to get their attention. If the trainer thinks you're going to traumatize a Lab by giving a little correction, that probably won't work out. At the other extreme, beware "K-9" trainers who believe that all dogs are trying to dominate people and need to be punished constantly for infractions.

Ultimately, you just have to ask around for recommendations and sit in on some classes. A good trainer won't mind letting you watch a class or two, and if you see a trainer doing anything to a dog that you wouldn't feel comfortable having them do to your dog, then avoid them.

We spoke with 2 trainers yesterday and when asked if we could view there class's they BOTH said why we have a refund policy, Yep refund policy is null and void after you start the class.

As always thanks for the feedback

[Belles mom]

We spoke with 2 trainers yesterday and when asked if we could view there class's they BOTH said why we have a refund policy, Yep refund policy is null and void after you start the class.

As always thanks for the feedback

I have taken a lot of classes, and taught a lot of classes in different places. ALL have the same policy of no refunds after the first class. That is to prevent people getting the info they need, handouts etc, and then asking for a refund. Also, to help prevent the person from taking up a spot that someone else could have had.

[Samson]

I have taken a lot of classes, and taught a lot of classes in different places. ALL have the same policy of no refunds after the first class. That is to prevent people getting the info they need, handouts etc, and then asking for a refund. Also, to help prevent the person from taking up a spot that someone else could have had.

I thought that the OP meant that he wanted to view somebody's training . Would you allow that as the trainers that I had would let any member of the public in to view the training before they joined the class. In fact one trainer that I used in the past only charged per session which was helpful for people who worked shifts.

[Belles mom]

I thought he just wanted to view the class also, until he said "yup refund policy null and void once the class starts"

Viewing a couple classes I would have no problem, unless they showed up for and took notes on each class (and then take instructor time after class asking questions), have had that happen too. Some places allow drop in and some did not. It makes classes a lot harder to teach if you do not know who is showing up, especially in beginner classes, where everyone would at different levels. In the higher level competitive classes it is easier, as the handlers are more motivated and understand what is involved. Drop ins at the beginning level tend to have all sorts of excuses as to why their dog can not do what the rest of the class participants are doing.