Is my 10-week-old trainable?

**blkdog** · 11-07-2011, 02:48 PM

Our 10-week-old (note—not in puberty) lab puppy is really defiant. For instance, if she jumps up and puts her front feet on chairs and we tell her “no, off!” and push her off the chair she will do it again (and again, and again), and snap at us as she does it. She looks us right in the eyes. We have tried stern talks, removing her into the kitchen where she has to stay alone until she quiets down, making her sit and then trying to give her another activity, pushing her (gently but firmly) to a lying position and holding her there for a while while saying “no”, slapping a newspaper on the ground, shaking a can full of coins (this worked until our neighbor let her have the can—now she thinks it is a toy and it has no effect whatsoever), spraying a mist of water in her face (she doesn’t like it—she backs off but then goes right back to the jumping on chairs, snapping in the direction of the person with the water bottle). She is generally not distractable from what she wants to do. She is smart. What worries me is that she is not impressed that I am in charge, though I am being consistent. She bites at me and my clothes if I try to enforce anything. She is much better than at 6 weeks, in that she has learned not to bite hard. But even light bites are defiant (and rip clothing).

I am particularly worried because we got her from a breeder at 6 weeks. We didn’t want a puppy to be taken from the mom so young, but the breeder insisted. She wouldn’t even take money to leave the puppy with her mom. Her litter was weaned by 5 weeks and didn’t see the mom after that, and had no human socialization either until we got her. The vet has told us not to let her play with other dogs until her next set of shots at 12 weeks, so we have had no way to socialize her to dogs.

I just read an article that said no one can train a dog removed so early from the mom—it is hopeless. I could use from this chat group: (1) hope, and (2) ideas. I have had two other labs, got them at 8 and 10 weeks, and trained them beautifully with no trouble. This one is different. No sign she wants to please, no sign she thinks I’m in charge. Help! Is it hopeless or just hard?

**okiwa** · 11-07-2011, 03:01 PM

I don't believe that she is untrainable at all! Keep it up and she will learn. I cant say much about what will work because I am currently researching training myself. The most popular seems to be a stern "AH" and move her down (apparently dogs respond well to hand movements so its good to add them in training) keep it up and dont let her win otherwise she will begin to think she is the pack leader and responsible for you not the other way round. I would also suggest if she does what you want then give her a treat and praise so she knows what kind of behaviour she will be rewarded for.

**Sophiesmama** · 11-07-2011, 03:03 PM

It's not hopeless, just more difficult. What I would do is use the same command and same action every time. You indicate trying many things. If you do and say the same thing every time, she will eventually get it. Remember she is a 10 week old baby. Baby being key word here. They have a short attention span. Getting her so early, she didn't really learn how to be a puppy. Also, if you have friends or family that you are certain have dogs that are current on their vaccinations, you can socialize her with those dogs, until she has had all her shots. Since she had no human socialization prior to you getting her, you would expect her to be uncertain how to act around you. It will take awhile. As far as biting at you, she looks at you like she would another puppy. She hasn't figured out you are the boss

You said she puts her feet on chairs. Is it that you don't want her on furniture? If that is the case, and you are picking her up to hold her while on the furniture, she won't understand why she can't get up there all the time. Our Sophie loves to lay in our recliner, and if you notice, she is on my chair looking out the window in the picture below. She has never hurt the furniture. Everything else is fair game though!

Just keep at the training. It will pay off, it will just take awhile.

**Tanya** · 11-07-2011, 03:07 PM

Take a deep breath...YES all dogs are trainable. Some are more receptive than others but even those of us that got our dogs at much older ages (adults) can train our dogs! Nothign is hopeless. Sometime it means it may take longer and require more patience, but DEFINATELY NOT hopeless.

my first recommendation is to see if there are puppy kindergarden clases you can take and sign up ASAP. most would accept dogs the age of yours, which will help with training and soclization even when you are limited in where you can bring them.

For the record - if a "breeder" INSIST you take a puppy that early that means you need to run away in teh future, but we all learn somewhere - take this as a lesson learned and be more proactive in your future puppy purchases!

lastly, this is a baby, she isn't doign all this to make you mad, she is just a baby.

ETA: Socialization is VERY important. While it can be dangerious - you have to balance health and socialization. This means finding "safer" dogs and places to socialize! Like a friend's dog that is up to date on theri shots and pretty good natured. This is a crucial socialization period where they learn "dog speak" so for her to NOT have any interactions with other dogs from the age of 6 weeks until 12 weeks may stunt her development (dog wize). I would try to find a way to get her with other dogs, while still being ."safe".

**Tanya** · 11-07-2011, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by blkdog

We have tried stern talks, removing her into the kitchen where she has to stay alone until she quiets down, making her sit and then trying to give her another activity, pushing her (gently but firmly) to a lying position and holding her there for a while while saying “no”, slapping a newspaper on the ground, shaking a can full of coins (this worked until our neighbor let her have the can—now she thinks it is a toy and it has no effect whatsoever), spraying a mist of water in her face (she doesn’t like it—she backs off but then goes right back to the jumping on chairs, snapping in the direction of the person with the water bottle).

Ok puppies don't speak human - stern talks do ABOSLUTELY NOTHING and mean ABOSLUTELY NOTHING to a dog.

Time outs mean NOTHIGN to a puppy. They have the attentions pan of a gnat, they don't just sit in teh corner "thinking" about what they did. They have moved on adn long forgotten whatever it was they were doign before they were put in teh kitchen.

The whole "alpha roll" on the back is old school and again, does not accomplish or teach the puppy anything.

Be careful tih all those sudden loud noises - you may create a jumpy or reactive dog.

This is a BABY, always supervise and just redirect to an appropriate activity.

**tammyhuffman** · 11-07-2011, 03:18 PM

Of course it is not hopeless, but you need to remember that she is a baby and it is your job to be consistent and firm with her. I think you are trying too many things to correct her and this may be the reason for her unresponsiveness. Stick with a firm "off" while moving her gently down from the chair. I try not to use the word "no" as it is all I would say all day! Remember to praise, praise, praise her when she does finally do what you have asked of her and make sure you do this at the exact time she "gets it". You will need to remember that she was taken from her litter mates and mother too early and without human socialization she did not have a very good start, it is going to be lots of extra work but it will be worth it in the end. Make sure she gets plenty of controlled exercise, (in your yard), a tired puppy is a happy puppy! Good luck!

**blkdog** · 11-07-2011, 04:01 PM

Thanks very much for your replies. I REALLY need this support. I really appreciate it.

I guess I should have mentioned that I haven't tried all of those methods to discourage Leelu all at once. We've had her now for 4 weeks, and I tried each one for a while to see whether it had any effect. What I assumed initially would work-- redirecting to a chew toy or something fun-- hardly ever works. She has great concentration.

For the last hour I tried rewarding her every time she responded correctly when I said "off" i.e., took her front paws off the chairs (or wall or frig or whatever). She is now doing better with "off". I think I am making progress, but I'm worried that she will jump up just so that she can be told "off" and then get a treat. Am I incentivizing the jumping up by rewarding the correct response to "off"?

BTW, I have been consistent about not letting her up at any time on the furniture. She wants to have her paws up there desperately (on the dining room chairs) because the table has interesting things on it-- food, napkins, etc.-- and she wants to get to them. I figure that if there is a piece of furniture we will allow her on (like probably the couch in front of the TV), we'll make that point much later. For now it is no furniture.

I am desperate to get her with other dogs and get her some exercise, and have now found 2 dogs who do not go to dog parks or dog daycare and am trying to arrange playdates. The vet says she should not step on dirt (so almost all of our backyard is off limits) and shouldn't be with dogs who have played with a lot of other dogs even if they are vaccinated, because parvo is in the soil and in some dog poop and vaccinated dogs can carry the virus on their paws. But Leelu really needs exercise, I think, and more stimulation. I'm running out of games she can play on the porch, patio, and in the house.

Again-- thanks so much.

**steveandginger** · 11-07-2011, 04:16 PM

You have hope. We got our previous puppy Misty at about 6 1/2 weeks, and it sounds like your Leelu is alot like Misty was (and to some degree, alot like Gracie can be at times). They are SO persistent. If they want something, you can stop them, and they immediately go back to it! But, while it was tough, and took a LOT of persistence, consistency, and time, Misty turned out to be the best dog you could imagine! There is no reason your dog is not "trainable;" it just may take a ton of patience on your part!

I think maybe I would not see this "doing what she wants despite your corrections" as so much as "defiance," but just puppy persistence and focus. This just seems to be the way they are at times.

One thing -- you seem to be frustrated (which I fully understand) when you say "no," and she continues, or persists. Maybe you could look at it this way -- she is a puppy, full of energy, short attention span, lots of enthusiasm, and needs to burn that energy, and yet you are speaking what to her is a "foreign language" and trying to use this "foreign language" to stop natural puppy behavior! She will NOT understand; you will have to repeat yourself OVER and OVER and be CONSISTENT -- and you of course will have to "MAKE" your command have the desired response. If you tell her "off," you have to take her "off." If you tell her "release" or "drop" when she has something in her mouth, you will have to do that in conjunction with removing said item. Because, if she, say, jumps on a chair, and you say NO -- OFF, and she stays, and you say NO!! OFF!! again, you aren't having much effect. You have to remove her from the chair IN CONJUNCTION with the command, over and over and over again (I'm sure you know this, just stressing it -- since when I get flustered, I myself forget this, and tend to get mad that she's not "obeying"!) You might have to give a command and ENFORCE the command ("make" the action happen) hundreds of times over the next several weeks, but trust me, she'll "get" it, if you are consistent. I doubted at times if Misty would EVER get it, but of course, she did. They are smart, as you have noted; I found though that trying to train a short-attention-span-chock-full-of-intense-energy puppy can be like beating your head against a wall at times. BUT, hang in there; when that "puppy insanity" begins to wane, you will see the fruits of your labor start showing up!

Hope this helps a little!

Steve

**Beerfish** · 11-07-2011, 05:03 PM

Find things that she will find even more interesting on the floor (ie toys, chew things) than the ones she wants on the table and chairs. Paws up? Take paws down (say down) squeak a toy in hand and play with her at her level for a while.