I made this account just today because I have a few questions about our new dog Odin. This is him; he's two years old according to the shelter...
Yes, that's raw hide in the picture but we keep a very close eye on him. It's his favourite thing to play fetch with.
We adopted him two weeks ago. They said he is a chocolate lab mix, anyone have any idea what the mix side might be?
Anyhow, he is a great dog, he knew stay and come here but didn't know sit. In the past weeks I've taught him down, sit, paw, ok, and leave it. We're still working on sit, down and leave it though; he does it well at times but then seems to forget/ignore it other times. Since the start I've had him sit and wait while I put his food bowl down for him, and upon saying ok he eats. That goes for water as well, not only at home but in water breaks during walks. He is so very gentle taking treats (I've read that labs are known for their soft mouth). His original name was Tosu, but seeing as he didn't respond to it we changed it to Odin, he's finally starting to connect it together. People say that there isn't such thing as a bad dog, but a bad owner. I believe this, and I don't want him to ever start losing respect and begin misbehaving because I've been slack, but I think it's beginning to happen. We were given no back ground details of where or how Odin was found, I don't like that very much because it's difficult knowing his fears and anxieties, and you know, things he might be hesitant around. We want to comfort him as much as we can.
So, here are the problems.
Firstly I'd like to talk about the problems we've encountered from the start.
Being that he is so young he has a lot of energy, I'm sure since this is a lab forum that you all know how much energy a lab can have. This energy is always released most when meeting new people and dogs, it's become an issue. I've been trying to wean him off jumping on people. I can't even tell you how I've done it because I have no clue, at all. It's still in the very early stages though and it's not always that I am able to get him to sit and calm down, but when I do (barely), I then say the words "say hi" and motion him towards the person. 8 out 10 times he doesn't listen. He jumps, and when you have him sit he slightly raises his paws off the floor in excitement again and again, you can tell from his body language that he is really trying to contain himself, but he will begin to whine and even bark. So, I don't know what to do with this.
The bigger problem to me is him meeting other dogs. He snaps. It's strange because he can walk by some dogs and not show interest, but he can also walk by dogs and start lunging at them, tugging really hard on the leash (he's 80 pounds), lifting himself off the floor onto his hind legs. I mean, it captures everyone's attention when he does this; he's very nearly my height (5'6), when he's standing. A lot of people are scared of him because of his size and how intently focused he becomes when spotting some of them, he will not move, he's like a stone. With dogs this focus takes form in a lot of movement, we have only ever let him come face to face with two dogs. The first one was a yellow lab mix, very sweet dog. This was his first time, with us at least, meeting another dog in a physical way. He immediately began jumping on her back and pawing at her face and body, he was so damn rough and the other dog was clearly a bit confused as to how to behave. She ended up taking a very submissive position on her back and allowed him to sniff her mouth, when she got back up he continued sniffing her mouth and then licking it a lot, but the rough play was still there. The guy walking the yellow lab mix was obviously a bit uncomfortable as he walked away after 4 minutes or so. It makes me sad because I want Odin to be a dog and play rough, but there is a line I'm afraid he will cross. The second time he got to play with a dog was last week with a 6 month old pit bull. Another extremely sweet dog that was even adopted from the same shelter Odin came from. This dog was up for the rough play, he almost matched the energy Odin had, but he was a bit smaller and so he did get knocked about. Three days ago we took him to a dog friendly lake, Ramapo Reservation. I was beyond thrilled to have him in the water. Again, we had no information on his previous home life but we suspected he might have never swam before or even gone in a lake. He's comfortable with getting in water, but he hates the water hose, btw. So at the lake we grabbed a thick branch (if it's a thin stick he tends to crack it and try eating it) and threw it in the water, it was wonderful, he went out and got it. We progressively threw the stick out a bit further every time and he handled it really well, at one point he had to swim and he did, it was super funny because he clearly isn't the best swimmer, but he did it. The problem began when a big burly dog about the same size as Odin showed up at of nowhere behind us. Odin sprinted out of the water and went straight to him. This dog, Sampson, wasn't having any of it. He was 10 years old and not up for the rough play but Odin didn't care. He tackled him and jumped on him and even sent Sampson falling over onto his side. He also broke the retractable leash we borrowed from our small dog so we had a form of connection while Odin was in the water. I felt so bad for what was happening, it was a mess, I was barefoot getting my feet all muddy from being dragged around by Odin, and once the leash broke I couldn't get hold of him. He wouldn't listen to me. I didn't know what to say to Sampson's owner, I know people don't like wild dogs at dog places like that, but we need to get Odin out there experiencing things. The guy was understanding though and told me Sampson was exactly like Odin at the age of two. Sampson barked two different times at Odin as a warning but Odin kept pushing it and even began barking back, I took it as his way of saying to Sampson But I want to play!
I'm sorry this is so lengthy already but I do need help and advice here. I've read up on different people on this forum who have the same problem of rough play but I wanted to post my own thread so I could better explain Odin's situation. How do I get a dog to calm down and play a little less rough? I tried using water one time because I had his water container with me, but it did not work. He becomes so focused that it's like he can't hear or see anything other than his focus.
my biggest piece of advice - take an obedience class.
I would almost treat this dog as if he were a puppy, retrain from scratch. he needs daily training sessions, keep them short for now but do a few throughout the day. when you are out and about, use rewards to keep his focus (whatever works, treats, toys, whatever). Keep in touch with him at all times on the walk and make sure you see dogs before he does, when you do, keep talking to him. if a dog is coming close and you feel he may react, have him do a sit abit farther from the sidewalk. Unforunately it is best to really work on basids in a quieter environment first and work up to this type of distractions.
DO NOT use a retractible leash at any time for this dog - they are ment for dogs who do not pull and listen. Maybe after awhile once he is properly trained you can use a retracible leash but until then, don't use it. Use a long line if you need more lenght.
How much (and what type) of exercise is he geting daily?
I would control his interactions and meetings with other dogs for the time being. YES you want him meeting new dogs but as he is unpredicable I would pick and chose the better dogs for him to socialize with and as you improve your control over him, you can have him meet more variety of dogs. It is hard to say from your description is he is full out dog aggressive (doesn't sound like it) or just an over zealous lab with no impulse control and no "dog manners". if it is at the second, meetings with dogs who will put him in his place would be good. dogs that don't read "doggy body language. can be problematic as you can see, as they don't read when to back off.
As far a the jumping on people when they come to your home: Tether Odin. Keep the leash in your hand when the visitors come in. Give him no more than a foot or so of leash. Force him to behave. Give him what ever command you chose to use. Make him sit and behave and give a proper greeting. Labs are smart. He will get it pretty fast.
As far as what he may be mixed with, he looks pure bred to me. Looks alot like our Sophie....
Thanks so much to you both for responding. I wrote the above in a bit of a rush so it all came out like one giant knot of words.
Tanya:
I read a post earlier today, before writing my own, about Rocky. Little did i know you'd be replying to me later on lol. He's a beautiful dog.
As for Odin...
I use all the basic commands more than several times a day. Every time i come into the house i have him Stay at the base of the steps until i say Ok and he follows me inside. If i walk into the living room and sit on the couch i have him Sit, then Down. He loves his treats, and i've noticed that i've made one of the worst mistakes i could with training by using treats as a bribe rather than a reward, at least that's what it has turned into. Many times now he doesn't want to do something if i don't have any treat to offer. Funny thing is that though he loves treats so much, he could care less about them when i'm waving them in front of his face when he's all excited about a dog. Nothing recaptures his attention. - I have Odin sleep outside. He has a great big comfy create and a tie out post. He hardly whines about it anymore, but at first it was bad. I read online that one trick was to get a plastic bottle with a few pennies and rattle that sucker whenever Odin barked, but to be out of sight when doing it. It worked, and it still works on the off occasion he barks. Some say that this same method might be the answer to reclaiming his attention when he's focused fully on another dog. To be truthful, i'd feel a little shy about shaking a bottle of pennies at my obnoxious dog in the middle of a park haha, but i guess if i have to i will.
Considering he is 80 pounds and i love to wear flip flops, i've certainly maintained a close watch on our surroundings when out on walks, since the first day. I have no room to be wandering off in my own world because if he sees a dog before me, it can cause trouble for the both of us, possibly even seriously hurt my arm. I nearly fall every time a dog is within reach, and that's with me fully aware of what is happening. I walk with him by my side, leash wrapped around my hand all the way to were the leash meets the collar. He walks well with me, and when he's walking really well i tell him Ok and let him take lead and walk ahead. The only reason i used the retractable leash on him Saturday was because the Reservation rules say a dog must be leashed at all times, even when swimming. I wanted to give him a bit of range in the water, room to swim, so that's why i switched leashes with my smaller dog. I would never trust Odin to a retractable leash at the current moment, he needs to work for that privilege. He gets two daily walks, about 2 hours long each, sometimes longer.
He certainly needs to hang out with a solid crowd of confident and strict dogs so he can learn some proper doggy manners. Our small chihuahua mix will bark at any dog she encounters, aggressively, but when she met Odin she set him straight. He kept invading her space and so she nipped at his ruff and ever since they have got on really well. She tolerates him, and he knows not to mess with her or get too excited around her.
I found a good trainer in the area, we might be sending Odin to him. But today we took Odin to petco (his second time) and there was a group training class in progress. He didn't react to the dogs in the training room and kept on with us. He was so well behaved actually. He had one instance of over excitement with a person but otherwise was a total gentleman. Seeing the dogs there didn't trigger his crazyness. Do you think a few classes there would be good? One of the workers encouraged it, and i don't think it was only because he worked there, but because he saw Odin wasn't aggressive or acting too crazy. Both my dad and i think he might not have had the chance to have the puppy experience with other puppies. He does try biting at times, like when he gives kisses, and obviously he isn't very aware of his size or how to behave around others. At petco we ended up getting him a training leash that goes across his chest and under. We'll see how that works out. Supposedly a lot of their power sits at the base of their neck, so i guess the theory is that that leash gives you a better handle at the source of their power. We asked an employee who said the trainer uses it. We also got him a blue funky toy to put treats in and combat boredom a bit. Thankfully Odin is extremely well mannered as far as not taking foreign objects or things off tables, and he isn't destructive. And, to use less treats and have more consistency with training, i got a clicker.
Sophiesmama:
I have such a difficult time keeping him still and sat when someone shows up. He's great with my mom, she's scared of dogs and it's almost like he knows that in a way and as excited as he gets he will not jump on her. But i guess other people like my dad who does walk in with a bit of excitement himself - even though he knows he's supposed to set an example to Odin - give Odin the okay to join in on the energy. I have to almost beg for my dad to ignore Odin when he first walks in, and it's not what i had expected of him seeing as he was all about the Dog Whisperer and acted as if he knew so much. He's proven to be totally lax with the rules he knows i have set for Odin. But when it does work out and he ignores Odin, Odin eventually sits or visibly calms down, at which point i tell my dad to invite Odin to him, but it all goes down the drain again because my dad brings out all that energy instantly after calling him over.
Speaking of, my dad seems to think Odin's hind legs show a sign of being mixed, he says labs don't walk like that. He also says Odin's snout is longer, bigger, and wider than a labs, but he has never had a lab before. I have thought from day one that Odin just looked like a choclate lab alone, but i also have never had one or know much about them. The shelter has messed up before, like when they refused to second check the fact that Odin was fixed, and insisted that he wasn't since it was written on his papers. They took him to surgery, sedated him, and then realized that yep, totally fixed. I will always remember that day. The vet assistant walked in with this big dopey eyed sleepy head who's eyes were nearly shut. His legs kept sliding on the floor, he didn't know what was going on, but i bent down and he put his nosey right between my hip and my arm. We left him over night to make sure he'd be safe, the vet assistant and nurse spoke so well of him.
Some labs are block heads and have bigger heads. As far as the jumping on company goes, leash him when company comes to the door. When people come in, keep him tethered with about a foot of leash. Force him to sit when people come in. Tell him "down"...when seated on the sofa, keep him leashed and at your feet. He will get the idea. After a few times, leave off the leash, give the "down" command, and if he doesn't comply, leash him again. He will figure out what is expected.
You must be near me - I've been to the Reservation many times. I am not a fan of letting dogs swim there due to the (many) snakes in the water.
I agree - get into an obedience class as soon as you can. You will both learn a lot. You've gotten good advice from Tanya and Sophiesmom. I would also advise you to be patient. You have only had him for a very short period. It takes 6 weeks for an adopted dog to truly adjust to his new home. Consistency in managing him and creation of a routine he can follow (so he knows what to expect as "normal" in your household) will help a great deal.
Maybe. I'm around the Newark area. I've heard of even rattlesnakes at the Reservation but i didn't spot any snake myself - I do wish i had though since i'm always trying to find them. Are you talking about any specific type that could be dangerous to the dog or are you talking about the common Garter snake, can that be a problem with the dog?
Yeah, we're signing him up for the petco classes. It's more my idea, my father rather Odin go to another trainer but i think petco is worth a try first. I'm trying so hard to be patient but it seems as if every day a new problem comes along. For the past few days Odin has began growling, not aggressively or loudly, when i pet him while he's eating. And it's not like a make it a habit of bothering him while he's eating but, once i put his bowl down i do just pet his back once or twice in what i would equate to a pat on the back on a person. I've been feeding him little by little now with the food bowl between my feet or on my lap, and sometimes he's great about it and lets me pet him the entire time, and other times he growls. Is this normal with y'alls labs?
Yesterday on the way to the park we walked by this house where a woman loved Odin and called him cute or something, and Odin went towards her, i think he sensed her friendly vibe. She asked if she could pet him and i said yes, and the minute Odin got close to her he just flew up into her arms. I tried getting him under control but she kept telling me that it was okay and letting him jump on her even more. I did let myself get in the way of truly correcting the action because i didn't want to be rude and tell her, hey, it's not okay, sorry but he needs to learn to sit and stop jumping on people. Then at the entrance to the park he nearly teared my arm off because of a small dog. Then once tied out in this great open section of the park that i like to open a sheet in and play a little soccer or racquetball, he spotted a german shepherd and again started barking and being obnoxious. What truly hurt me, like it honestly hurt my heart, was when a family walking their choclate lab (i hate the way i phrased that because it makes it seem as if the lab isn't part of the family), sent over their young boy to ask me if Odin was a chocolate lab and if he bites. I know Odin is just overly friendly but seeing as i had never seen him interact with children, i told the boy just that, that i didn't know how he behaves with kids but that he is friendly with adults. The boy said thank you and walked back to his family and i instantly knew that because of Odin's behaviour he missed out on playing with a big (larger than him) chocolate lab. I guess that makes me sad because it's one of his kind and in my head i think that there is some connection when two dogs of the same breed interact. Maybe that's just nonsense though.
Thank you all for responding. And @sophiesmamma, yes, thank you, i will leash him up when my mom comes home.
While it didn't bleed, Odin bit me today. Maybe it's my fault, i'm really not sure. Earlier today i mentioned some growling with the food bowl, but i forgot to mention that he growls with other things that are his, like bones and toys. This is a recent development, when he got here he showed no sign of possessiveness, so i can't help thinking i'm the one who has allowed this or even brought on this behaviour. What happened is that i had put him outside, freshened his water bowls, fed him, and i put some treats in one of those toys to keep them occupied. I have never given him this toy outside before but i thought i would since yesterday night he was acting up and barking a few times and whining after i had come back inside, and he hasn't done this in a week or so. I checked up on him constantly through the window and nothing was wrong, that i could see. So i told him to stay and then walked over to his crate area and put down his toy. I told him ok and he went to it and started chewing on it. I went towards him to say my own good bye by just petting him, and he growled. So i stood in front of the toy to stand my ground and kind of touched his chest in a way to get his attention, and he growled again. So i stayed there and kept standing my ground, i'd touch him again every now and then to see if he was still growling, and at one point he just bit my hand. Not a soft warning bite. Although it didn't bleed, it hit the side of my index finger and it hurt, it's still a little sore against the bone. I didn't move, i continued standing there and got even closer and still touched his chest and he stopped growling. After i touched his chest a few times and he didn't growl, he actually seemed a bit scared/sad in a way, i backed off and took him to his crate area. I feel bad for him, i feel angry at him, i feel passive aggressive. Maybe what i did wasn't the best way to go about it. I just feel so bad right now. I kind of broke down a bit once i came back inside because i don't know, i just felt a lot of different emotions i guess. A bit resentful that i have been working at these things with him to no avail. I also feel bad that i may have pushed him to an uncomfortable point and now he will be frightened of me.
But i realize that most likely tomorrow will be just another day with him. He will have forgotten of what happened or moved on from it like wild dogs would do. They nip at one another when one takes it too far, but they don't hold on to things that have been done. I just don't know if i can move on so easily. I feel as if i'll have a hard time being around him tomorrow not because i'm scared but because he did what he did. I know i'm not a very good pack leader but he completely disrespected me, he made me feel like all that work was for nothing, though maybe he only bit me because i didn't express a fair amount of respect for him.
You are making this relationship with him far to human (anthropomorphic) and complicated. When a dog growls he is COMMUNICATING with you in the only way he knows how. You have ignored his growling over and over and now he has bitten you. All of these things you are feeling (angry, resentful, passive aggressive(?)) are not meaningful at all to this dog and don't help things at all.
He has not been there that long. After a number of days/weeks a dog settles into a new place and you start to see the REAL dog. He is clearly food/toy aggressive. He is telling you to back off. Standing your ground is asking to be bitten IMO. Have you asked the shelter you adopted him from if he showed any food aggression while he was there? That would be step one for me. See if they have any trainers who can help you. Petco classes may or may not be worthwhile, some of those trainers are OK and some are idiots - but I think you need to deal with this behavior outside of a class with an individual.
You can try NILIF (look up - nothing in life is free) and try doing some of those things with him - but I am concerned about your ability or lack thereof in reading this dog's cues - you may be setting yourself up for a worse bite.
And - you took him to a public place and put him on a tie out while you did something else? Not a good idea. Until you can count on how he is going to behave and react, you need to be in control of him at all times in public.
And - yes there are snakes in the upper lake at the Reservation - it is very well known and I have seen them - they swim and they bite (pretty aggressively actually).
I thought i made it clear that i realize my emotions don't translate into anything to him. I know the difference between human emotion and dog mentality.
Growling is a sign of possessiveness and i'm sure many different people have different views on what should be done but i tend to believe that when a dog is being possessive you correct the behaviour. Even the best dog trainers get bitten. That is not to imply i'm a dog trainer at all, i'm not, all i mean is that people who do this professionally do get nipped. I went about it the wrong way. I have also given up a lot of my pack leader status, but i sure as hell plan on getting it back. He is already a dominant dog, he is the dog that needs to be center of attention and climbs over other dogs and jumps on people, but i will end that bad behaviour, there is no need to question my ability "or lack thereof". I put my hand in the fire and i got burned, but that doesn't mean i won't put my hand back around the perimeter. I'm not afraid of him, but i respect him, and to me that respect is what was missing from me earlier when i pushed it too far.
I started reading the Nilif today. If i make a mistake with him or doubt an action, i look it up and i read everything in sight.
Also, I took him to a public place for a walk, and then i tied him out for a short period of time in a secure location for both him and any passerby, a place where he is not close to reach with another dog or person. And he behaved perfectly well. He is calm submissive while at the park lying down and watching things around him. I didn't leave him there and walk off in the distance, i was literally within 8 feet of him with a careful eye at all times.
This is not an aggressive dog, this is a possessive dog, and i didn't know better at the time, now i do. I will still stand my ground, i will not push him like a naive younger dog might and how i did. I'll silently and firmly stand by as a dominant and older dog would.
As far as training, the private trainer will only be available a while from now, whereas petco has a new class starting relatively soon. I'm taking him to petco for now, and if it doesn't strongly impact him i'll change to the other trainer.
Thank you.
And also, there is no way for me to know that it is very well known about the snakes since i live an hour away but i'll take your word for it.
Last edited by underthemangotree; 07-15-2011 at 12:57 AM.
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