Stupid question because I'm not sure I understand it correctly...

**CaliforniaLabLover** · 09-23-2008, 02:23 AM

I am going to enter Monty in Novice Rally at our specialty show in November, and probably Libby in regular Obedience.

Libby has her RN title (we earned that this past February) but only 1 leg toward her CD title. She is the only dog I've ever competed with before, so *I* only have that one RN title under my belt....no regular obedience (YET).

Monty has never shown in rally or obedience.

So, Monty has to be entered in Rally-Novice B because of Libby's RN title, right? I thought the last time this came up, I was told that I can enter him in Novice A, but now I don't know why that would be since in regular obedience, the minute Libby earns her CD title, I would have to enter him in Novice B, correct? Why on earth do I find this so confusing?

And Libby, having an RN title, is still eligible to finish her obedience title in Novice A, correct? What if I have them both competing in Novice A and one finishes before the other (even just a week or so)?

I just got the premium list today...rally and obedience are only on Sunday, and there is no way I would enter both dogs in both.
For conformation, Monty now only gets to compete for Best Of Breed both days, but I get to enter him in the Stud Dog class now (again, both days), so he is going to get much more of a workout at the show than Libby, who will only get one class, one day.

Monty classes (Total of 5)-
Best Of Breed (Sat and Sun)
Stud Dog (Sat and Sun)
Rally- Novice (A or B...Sun only)

Libby class (total of 1)-
Obedience- Novice A (Sun)

At $27 each for the first class and $16 each additional entry, this is going to be expensive! LOL Another question for those who show conformation and performance events... when they say "additional entry for each dog, each day" does that apply toward mixing conformation and obedience venues for each dog? Like rally would only cost $16 for Monty because I have him entered in Breed?

You know, I must be a glutton for punishment...I swore with the stress of entering Libby in regular obedience and Monty in sweeps and regular classes as a puppy (and going back and forth for sweeps with Monty, then my obedience pattern with Libby, then back in for best in sweeps with Monty, then back over for groups with Libby, then back to regular classes with Monty again...) that I would NEVER do that to myself again! Thankfully, Monty's conformation classes are now the last ones of the day, LOL! 8)

**Baloo317** · 09-23-2008, 03:01 AM

I don't know, sorry... I'm tacking on so hopefully I can learn too...

**patm** · 09-23-2008, 07:15 AM

I'm going to have to think about this and I don't have time this morning before I go to work. I'll check back this evening and see if I can figure it out!

**imported_gabbys mom** · 09-23-2008, 08:58 AM

Let me take a stab at this.

You can enter Monty in Rally Novice A because the Rally entries are determined by the dog. Chapter 3, Section 1 of the Rally Regulations says: "to be eligible for this class, dogs may not have won an AKC Rally Novice title or any AKC obedience title prior to the close of entries." Therefore, if Monty has no obedience title, he is good to go in Rally Novice A.

You can also continue to show Libby in Novice A. Chapter 3, Section 1 of Obedience Regs: "The Novice A class shall be for dogs that have not won the CD title. A handler...must not have previously handled any dog that has earned a AKC Novice, Open, or Utility title."... So if Libby does not have her CD and you haven't previously titled other dogs in Obedience (not rally), you can show in Novice A. Once she gets her title, I believe you can also show in Novice A for 60 days.

Also, there is really no discount with obedience unless you are doing UDX stuff.

So you would pay 27 dollars for Monty on Saturday, and 27 for Libby on Saturday (first entries of that dog in those events that day). On Sunday, you would also pay 27 dollars for Monty and 27 for Libby.. yeesh.

**imported_Belles mom** · 09-23-2008, 11:33 AM

That is confusing!! Just to be sure you can enter Monty in Rally Novice B. Otherwise I think Libby can enter in Novice A in regular obedience (or go Novice B also just to be sure). Rally really is similar to regular obedience in what classes are to be entered. What you as an owner, have put on a dog matters in the Novice class A or B. The Rally Novice A class, (at least I thought) was really for people who have titled in nothing previously

**Canyon Labradors** · 09-23-2008, 04:43 PM

For us, I always do Rally B because Maddy's first title was her CD, but we can still do Open A and Utility A since I have never earned those.

For Obedience rules, it's strictly about OB. So Libby's in A. When she gets her CD, Monty would have to compete in OB B if he went that route, or any future dog.

For Rally rules:

The Rally Novice A Class: To be eligible for entry in this class, dogs
may not have won an AKC Rally Novice (RN) title or any AKC obedience
title prior to the close of entries. A handler must own the dog
entered or be a member of the owner’s household or immediate family.
The handler may not have previously handled any dog that has earned
an AKC rally title or any AKC obedience title. A person may enter more
than one dog in this class. After a dog earns the Rally Novice (RN) title,
it may continue to compete in this class for 60 days. No dog may be
entered in both Rally Novice A and Rally Novice B at any one trial.

So based on what I have highlighted, Monty would be in Rally Nov. B because you have handled a dog that has achieved a Rally title.

Good luck with everything. I try very hard not to over-extend at shows. I don't mind doing multiple dogs in one event, like I can do Grace and Maddy in Rally, but it's too hard to mix conformation and performance or difference performance events. There is always a conflict.

Our last big show of the year is in November, and I have already decided that I'll do the girls in Rally that weekend and not worry about the boys in Conformation. Although, if by the grace of God, Jack does well at the specialty, I'll do him at that show! :scare:

ETA: About the fees....most clubs show Rally as a separate show. They have their own event #. For some reason, OB still falls under the conformation show #, so if you had a dog doing conformation and OB, you would have a first and second entry there. But if you are doing comformation and rally, that's 2 first entries at 2 "separate" shows. I think it's stupid, but what can you do.

**Kinderwood** · 09-23-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by CYNLABS

For us, I always do Rally B because Maddy's first title was her CD, but we can still do Open A and Utility A since I have never earned those.

For Obedience rules, it's strictly about OB. So Libby's in A. When she gets her CD, Monty would have to compete in OB B if he went that route, or any future dog.

For Rally rules:

The Rally Novice A Class: To be eligible for entry in this class, dogs
may not have won an AKC Rally Novice (RN) title or any AKC obedience
title prior to the close of entries. A handler must own the dog
entered or be a member of the owner’s household or immediate family.
The handler may not have previously handled any dog that has earned
an AKC rally title or any AKC obedience title. A person may enter more
than one dog in this class. After a dog earns the Rally Novice (RN) title,
it may continue to compete in this class for 60 days. No dog may be
entered in both Rally Novice A and Rally Novice B at any one trial.

So based on what I have highlighted, Monty would be in Rally Nov. B because you have handled a dog that has achieved a Rally title.

Good luck with everything. I try very hard not to over-extend at shows. I don't mind doing multiple dogs in one event, like I can do Grace and Maddy in Rally, but it's too hard to mix conformation and performance or difference performance events. There is always a conflict.

Our last big show of the year is in November, and I have already decided that I'll do the girls in Rally that weekend and not worry about the boys in Conformation. Although, if by the grace of God, Jack does well at the specialty, I'll do him at that show! :scare:

ETA: About the fees....most clubs show Rally as a separate show. They have their own event #. For some reason, OB still falls under the conformation show #, so if you had a dog doing conformation and OB, you would have a first and second entry there. But if you are doing comformation and rally, that's 2 first entries at 2 "separate" shows. I think it's stupid, but what can you do.

Yep, Jen's right! Monty would be in Novice B because you've already handled a dog to a RN. Blue & Reba are perfect examples of this too. Blue had her RN (and was going for RA and CD) a couple of weeks ago. Blue was still eligible for Advanced A & Excellent A (until she earned her CD), but Reba had to be shown in Novice B because Blue already had her RN. Now that Blue has her CD, she'll have to finish her RE in the B class and Reba will have to take the "B" path in regular OB (when she's ready) as well.

I know it's all confusing and it seems silly at times, but AKC does take it very seriously. I know of someone who just got her last RA leg and 1st RE leg taken away for entering the wrong class.

**Canyon Labradors** · 09-23-2008, 07:14 PM

That's why sometimes if you are ever in doubt, B is the way to go. Hudler competed in Novice B OB and I don't think the scoring was any harder than what Maddy went through in A.

**Kinderwood** · 09-23-2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by CYNLABS

That's why sometimes if you are ever in doubt, B is the way to go. Hudler competed in Novice B OB and I don't think the scoring was any harder than what Maddy went through in A.

I agree 100%. When in doubt, enter B.

**ObedienceLabs4Me** · 09-23-2008, 10:03 PM

Yes, Monty would be in Rally Novice B because you have titled a dog to a RN. Then even if Libby has her CD, you can compete in Rally Advanced A because it then goes to what the dog has done not what you have done. That is why you will see OTCh handler/trainers in Advanced and Excellent A cause the dog does not have an obedience title. Libby can still be shown in obedience Novice A. But then Monty will be in Novice B. You can have only one Novice A dog in your life in each.