Runny Stools

[Baloo317]

I liked Schultze's book because it was much more of a how-to manual. I include veggies and kelp/alfalfa (not a lot), as I feel better knowing they are nutritional additions. I decided, through much research, that I prefered the BARF model to whole prey, which is basically what Kymythy describes in her book. Are these additions totally necessary? Maybe, maybe not. But for now it makes me feel much better and more confident that I am covering nutritional needs in varying ways, as I don't know that I will ever feel confident enough to feed weight bearing bones, and as such can't really feed a true whole prey diet. Schultze's "ultimate diet" is modeled after the whole prey anyways, with all the ingredients meant to make up the differing parts of the animal.

I just find it interesting that Schultze doesn't even follow her own recommendations in her book but you do and even recommend it to others. Same story concerning Billinghurst, the inventor of the BARF diet. He does not feed the way his book recommends feeding, nor did he ever.

Kymythy Schultze's recommended feeding is not modeled on a prey model. Veggies and grains are not a part of the diet designed by Mother Nature for a canine. Canines do not have grinding molars, movable jaws or long, convoluted digestive systems and necessary enzymes in order to digest veggies and grains.

The point here is that we need to examine the feeding methods in these books in relation to the current knowledge level. Raw diets have significantly evolved since the time these books were written. We also need to evolve and not get stuck on archaic feeding methods of the past.

:

It's clear to me from your statements that you haven't read the book. I read Lonsdale's book first, before making any decisions about what I thought. That's the way it usually goes.

I basically like it because it is structured, organized, and formulaic. Veggies (and other "extras") are an itty bitty portion or their diet, relatively speaking. Will it hurt them to have a bit of pulped veggies and some ground kelp/alfalfa? No.

That's not to say that one day I won't cut out the pulped veggies altogether (that day might be soon, 'cuz they are a royal pain in the ass :P) but for now I like having a step-by-step recipe to follow.

One thing I was wondering, Billinghurst wrote a loooonnggg reply in which he clearly states "an all meat diet is a disaster", here it is:

Why wild dogs are not a good role model for the domestic dog's diet. It sounds like a good idea to give your dog fresh, raw meat because "that's what the wild dogs eat".

Nobody except you is saying that. Read the literature. An all meat diet is a disaster. Nobody is advocating that. The meat has to be part and part only of a balanced biologically appropriate diet.

???

[Fallriver]

One thing I was wondering, Billinghurst wrote a loooonnggg reply in which he clearly states "an all meat diet is a disaster", here it is:

I always took that to mean all muscle meat. Although one of the pioneers, Billinghurst has sold out: hard to trust him when he has so much invested in product sales

[ObedienceLabs4Me]

I always took that to mean all muscle meat. Although one of the pioneers, Billinghurst has sold out: hard to trust him when he has so much invested in product sales

I agree Dana. So sad.

Many of the pioneer raw feeders did feel that way, that all meat was bad that they needed some vegies, etc. But, now the realize that a dog does not really need to have veggies and they do well on all meat. A lot has changed since Billinghurst first came out with his book.

[YellowLabProject]

Progress report: More good news- Tiegan's bowel movement was solid again for the second day in a row now. She ate well yesterday and last night. I gave her chicken breast last night and used cooked chicken for training this morning.

[Fallriver]

Good! Get a week of solid stools, then introduce a second protein source.

[jlab]

I liked Schultze's book because it was much more of a how-to manual. I include veggies and kelp/alfalfa (not a lot), as I feel better knowing they are nutritional additions. I decided, through much research, that I prefered the BARF model to whole prey, which is basically what Kymythy describes in her book. Are these additions totally necessary? Maybe, maybe not. But for now it makes me feel much better and more confident that I am covering nutritional needs in varying ways, as I don't know that I will ever feel confident enough to feed weight bearing bones, and as such can't really feed a true whole prey diet. Schultze's "ultimate diet" is modeled after the whole prey anyways, with all the ingredients meant to make up the differing parts of the animal.

I just find it interesting that Schultze doesn't even follow her own recommendations in her book but you do and even recommend it to others. Same story concerning Billinghurst, the inventor of the BARF diet. He does not feed the way his book recommends feeding, nor did he ever.

Kymythy Schultze's recommended feeding is not modeled on a prey model. Veggies and grains are not a part of the diet designed by Mother Nature for a canine. Canines do not have grinding molars, movable jaws or long, convoluted digestive systems and necessary enzymes in order to digest veggies and grains.

The point here is that we need to examine the feeding methods in these books in relation to the current knowledge level. Raw diets have significantly evolved since the time these books were written. We also need to evolve and not get stuck on archaic feeding methods of the past.

:

It's clear to me from your statements that you haven't read the book. I read Lonsdale's book first, before making any decisions about what I thought. That's the way it usually goes.

I basically like it because it is structured, organized, and formulaic. Veggies (and other "extras") are an itty bitty portion or their diet, relatively speaking. Will it hurt them to have a bit of pulped veggies and some ground kelp/alfalfa? No.

That's not to say that one day I won't cut out the pulped veggies altogether (that day might be soon, 'cuz they are a royal pain in the ass :P) but for now I like having a step-by-step recipe to follow.

One thing I was wondering, Billinghurst wrote a loooonnggg reply in which he clearly states "an all meat diet is a disaster", here it is:

Why wild dogs are not a good role model for the domestic dog's diet. It sounds like a good idea to give your dog fresh, raw meat because "that's what the wild dogs eat".

Nobody except you is saying that. Read the literature. An all meat diet is a disaster. Nobody is advocating that. The meat has to be part and part only of a balanced biologically appropriate diet.

Do you really think that what I'm advocating here is an "all meat diet"?

[Baloo317]

Do you really think that what I'm advocating here is an "all meat diet"?

No, as I was typing I just remembered that I meant to ask about that, so tacked it on.

A lot of people would refer to a whole prey model diet as "all meat" - they don't make the distinction between meat, bones, skin and organs, it's all just classified under the "meat" heading. :P

[YellowLabProject]

Update:
Tiegan is handling all this just fine, her stools have completely firmed up now. She loves the Raw diet and I really enjoy feeding her this way. Of course all the nutritional and health benefits, but the other emotional benefits are huge too. The bond between us directly from this feeding method is amazing. She is progressing so well....

Thanks to everyone here who helped getting me over my inital fears and ignorance.

Doug