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Thread: Film: "Black Swan" (2010)

  1. #1
    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    Default Film: "Black Swan" (2010)

    "Black Swan," 108 min, rated "R" (sexuality, some language, some gore). Rated at #60 (07Feb11) of Internet Movie Database's alltime best 250 films Black Swan (2010) - IMDb. Genres: ballet, psychological thriller. Roger Ebert's review is worthwhile: Black Swan :: rogerebert.com :: Reviews There are some ballet scenes but not as many as in "Red Shoes."

    A young ballerina ("Nina"/Natalie Portman) is in an imprisoning relationship with her single mother (Barbara Hershey) who, herself, had been an aspiring ballerina until.... It's never explicitly stated but easily inferred that her career ended when she became pregnant with Nina after an affair with her ballet master. What we see in Nina is a young woman with the reliance on her mother more typical of a 10-12 year old girl, trying to fulfill mother's desire to achieve being the perfect ballerina and to avoid any romantic relationships (which could interfere with progress to that goal just as it had for her mother). Her mother plays a strong hand in keeping things this way.

    Nina suddenly has a chance to dance the role of the swan queen (the white swan) in "Swan Lake" but must also dance her nemesis' role and look-alike, the black swan. As the virtuous white swan, Nina's perfect but her ballet master (who aims to have sex with Nina) keeps badgering her to be sexier, more flirtatious, more sexually inviting as the non-virginal black swan. This, of course, clashes with Nina's mother's upbringing of Nina.

    This clash provokes a developing psychotic reaction which Nina does not recognize--and neither do we, the film's viewers for awhile: we react to some scenes as actual experiences of Nina only to find out later that those episodes were the stuff of Nina's psychosis. And we leave the theater unsure of how much of what we saw of Nina was real or hallucination. My guess is that the fascination with trying to resolve this uncertainty is what drives many viewers to highly rate this movie.

    IMO, the pathological relation between Nina and her mother that sets up what follows was exceptionally well done by Portman and Hershey. There's enough resemblance in their facial features that we easily see them as mother and her adult child. All the other cast members (especially Mila Kunis as "Lily," a real life black swan & Vincent Cassel as the ballet master) seemed perfectly chosen and gave excellent performances. My movie companion studied ballet for years and said the film's practices seemed authentic.

    IMO, some of those psychiatrists & psychologists experienced in treating personality & psychotic disorders (including the various schizophrenias) may be among those having more quibbles with "Black Swan." E.g., the clash between her internalized mother's aims and those of her ballet master would certainly provoke a massive conflict within Nina. But a depressive reaction would be more likely and, if a psychotic reaction (either generalized or schizophrenic) occurred, there'd surely be obvious signs of disintegration between her episodes of hallucinations (i.e., she'd never be able to dance or function normally between those episodes). And there'll be others who object to the lesbian content or the gore.

    But captivating narratives have never had to follow reality to make them enjoyable--e.g., "Alice in Wonderland," "Kiki's Delivery Service," "Star Wars," "Harry Potter," the vampire "Twilight" series, and hundreds of others.

    I think IMDb's current rating of 8.6 of 10 stars and Ebert's rating of 3.5 of 4 stars are both representative of how the general public will react to this film. (But I think its rating will gradually drop somewhat with time as the uncertainty about what's reality and what's hallucination loses its "nouveau" fascination.)

    I think a 4 or 5 (or less) of 10 might be more typical by some of those with much mental health experience dealing with such disorders (and/or those with objections to other content).

    Last edited by Bob Pr.; 02-07-2011 at 11:28 AM. Reason: update IMDB's rating on alltime best 250 films
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    Jan's Avatar
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    I saw the trailer ... that was enough for me. Yuk!

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    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    I saw the trailer ... that was enough for me. Yuk!
    You're not alone, Jan.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    It does have some themes and material not everyone will be comfortable with--and they should avoid it. It's fortunate you saw the trailer and made your decision.

    As of this date & time, on IMDb, 710 people gave "Black Swan" ratings of either 1, 2, or 3 out of 10.

    (But there were also 17,749 people who gave it ratings of 10, 9, or 8.)



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    So Bob, would you rate it a 4 or 5 out of ten? Expecting Hollywood to accurately portray any profession or illness is a bit naive. I find CSI hard to watch as they bungle their scientific terms and have wickedly nice monitors etc. The worst offender was the Sean Connery movie "Medicine Man".
    Medicine Man (1992) - IMDb user reviews

    Somehow he managed to lug a GC/MS machine thru the jungle. HIGHLY UNLIKELY. The gas cylinders required to run those machines are heavy and the machines themselves are touchy. The best part though was the data these machines spit out. Fully formed chemical structures, there isn't a scientific machine out there that can do that. The machines spit out raw data-masses and peaks. Structures need to be verified using different machines. Whole thing was wholly unrealistic. Good story and watchable movie, so long as your major isn't Chemistry.

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    I do want to know what YOU rated this movie, Bob. But also what you rated "The Constant Gardner", because I HATED that movie and it was critically acclaimed, so I'm using that as my basis for trying to gauge movie standard compatibility. If you liked this movie and you liked "The Constant Gardner", well maybe it might not be for me.

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    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    I do want to know what YOU rated this movie, Bob. But also what you rated "The Constant Gardner", because I HATED that movie and it was critically acclaimed, so I'm using that as my basis for trying to gauge movie standard compatibility. If you liked this movie and you liked "The Constant Gardner", well maybe it might not be for me.
    I rated "Black Swan" at 8 of 10 stars. But some will find some of its material too offensive to rate it higher than a 1.

    I've never seen "The Constant Gardener" so can't give you my opinion about it.

    I often browse the "User Comments" section on Internet Movie Database to see what others are saying and where they're coming from. If you do that on the link below, you may find some others who share your view for similar reasons. Or if not, you should post your own review. (IMDb's "Message Board" for questions or comments about each film is also good to scan.)


    The Constant Gardener (2005) - IMDb user reviews


    Edited to Add:

    This morning's NYTimes has an article by their film critic, A.O. Scott, which (w/o stating in words) endorsed the selection of Natalie Portman for winning Best Actress in the coming Academy Awards.

    Good article (i.e., I fully agree with it). Portman gave a towering performance. A year or so ago, pasting the link to the NYT article brought it up; if that's still true, click on the link below.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/mo...me&ref=general

    If it's not still true (& if you want to read it), you might try "New York Times Most E-mailed" or some other snare to bring up the article. Scott's article begins:


    THE subject of “Black Swan” — a leading candidate for the most misunderstood film of 2010 — is the relationship, in art, between technique and emotion. Ballet, the specific art form in question, is shown to require endless practice and grueling physical discipline. Bodies, in particular the bodies of young women, are stretched and twisted into unnatural postures, and the cost of the fleeting, breathtaking grace they attain is reckoned in close-ups of battered, bloody feet and tendons pulled almost to the snapping point. The toe shoes that are among the principal tools of this torment also seem to be surrogates and scapegoats; they are scraped, mutilated and disfigured by the dancers in a symbolic re-enactment of the violence they perform upon themselves in their ruthless pursuit of perfection.

    Is “Black Swan” a realistic portrayal of life in a ballet company? Probably not. Is it an overheated, wildly melodramatic rendering of an artist’s struggle? Without a doubt. And to scold the director, Darren Aronofsky, for what he doesn’t get about dancers or how he looks at women is almost deliberately to miss the point. This is, at bottom, a horror movie. It gathers psychological implications from its chosen milieu and makes them literal, giving flesh to wild metaphors of female sexuality and aesthetic risk....


    Last edited by Bob Pr.; 12-31-2010 at 02:44 PM.
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    Jan's Avatar
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    I also use ROTTEN TOMATOES: Movies - New Movie Reviews and Previews! to check out what reviewers think ... it helps that they say why they don't or do like a movie, which influences me on whether to consider that review or not.

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    Bob Pr. is offline Senior Member
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    Jan, I VERY much agree and often use RT and their "Tomatometer" for the reasons and results you recommend.

    FWIW, here's their listing for "Black Swan:"

    Black Swan Movie Reviews, Pictures - Rotten Tomatoes

    And here's their listing for "The Constant Gardener:"

    The Constant Gardener Movie Reviews, Pictures - Rotten Tomatoes

    Last edited by Bob Pr.; 12-31-2010 at 02:25 PM. Reason: add links
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    I just watched this this weekend.
    IMO, some of those psychiatrists & psychologists experienced in treating personality & psychotic disorders (including the various schizophrenias) may be among those having more quibbles with "Black Swan." E.g., the clash between her internalized mother's aims and those of her ballet master would certainly provoke a massive conflict within Nina. But a depressive reaction would be more likely and, if a psychotic reaction (either generalized or schizophrenic) occurred, there'd surely be obvious signs of disintegration between her episodes of hallucinations (i.e., she'd never be able to dance or function normally between those episodes).
    When her mom sees the marks on her back she says, "You're scratching yourself again!" (emphasis mine) That to me says Nina has struggled in the past with some variation of these issues. Obviously I don't have a background in psychiatry, so I don't know if this would make a difference to those who had the above problem with the movie if this was an underlying issue of Nina's that was exacerbated by the mother/directer/Swan Lake rather than something that just sprang up from that stress.

    Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end. -- Unknown

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