VACCINATING PUPPIES--16 Weeks
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    Kris L. Christine's Avatar
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    Default VACCINATING PUPPIES--16 Weeks

    When considering at what age a puppy should begin receiving its core vaccines, consider the information from the American Animal Hospital Association stating that the maternal antibodies in a puppy younger than 16 weeks may interfer with the immune response. Bear in mind that there are risks associated with vaccinating as well as risks associated with not vaccinating. Making an informed decision is important. Also, be aware that giving combo vaccines (multi-valent) and/or several shots at once increases the risk of adverse reactions as well as the risk that the vaccines will interfere with each other, resulting in neutralization or negation.

    In the August 2008 issue of The Whole Dog Journal, Dr. Ronald Schultz reports in an article entitled, Vaccinations 101, by Lisa Rodier, "Research shows that less than 50 percent of puppies will respond at six weeks; 75 percent at nine weeks; 90 percent at 12 weeks; and by 14 to16 weeks, close to 100 percent will respond. "

    In an August 1, 2008 article in DVM360 entitled Vaccination: An Overview,http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com....jsp?id=568351 Dr. Melissa Kennedy states: Vaccination of the young begins at 6-8 weeks of age. Multiple boosters are given because maternal immunity interferes with vaccinal response. Because one doesn't know the level in each animal for each pathogen at each time point (and it is not feasible nor cost-effective to measure this), repeated boosters are given until the point when maternal immunity has likely decreased sufficiently to allow induction of immunity, usually at 16-18 weeks of age.

    On Page 16 of the of the American Animal Hospital Association's 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines, it reports that: When vaccinating an animal, the age of the animal, the animal's immune status, and interference by maternal antibodies in the development of immunity must be considered. Research has demonstrated that the presence of passively acquired maternal antibodies significantly interferes with the immune response to many canine vaccines, including CPV [parvo], CDV [distemper], CAV-2 [hepatitis] and rabies vaccines."

    They further state on Page 17 that: "Multiple vaccinations with MLV vaccines are required at various ages only to ensure that one dose of the vaccine reaches the puppy's immune system without interference from passively acquired antibody. Two or more doses of killed vaccines (except rabies) and vectored vaccines are often required to induce an immune response, and both doses should be given at a time when the passively acquired antibody can no longer interfere. Thus, when puppies are first vaccinated at 16 weeks (or more) of age (an age when passively acquired antibodies generally don't cause interference), one does of an MLV vaccine, or two doses of a killed vaccine, are adequate to stimulate an immune response."

    The AAHA Canine Vaccine Guidelines also declare on Page 17 that: "If a pup fails to respond, primarily due to interference by passively acquired maternal antibody, it is necessary to revaccinate at a later time to ensure adequate immunity."

    On Page 13 of the 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines, it lists as the most common reason for vaccination failure is "the puppy has a sufficient amount of passively acquired maternal antibody (PAMA) to block the vaccine......" They elaborate by reporting that at the ages of 14 to 16 weeks of age, "PAMA should be at a level that will not block active immunization in most puppies (>95%) when a reliable product is used."

    Vaccine Options & Prevention, MATERNAL ANTIBODY: OUR BIGGEST OBSTACLE http://www.marvistavet.com/html/vacc...revention.html

    Puppies that were born first or were more aggressive at nursing on the first day, will get more maternal antibody than their littermates.

    Mother dogs vaccinated at approximately the time of breeding will have the highest antibody levels to pass on to their puppies.

    *** REMEMBER, the more maternal antibody a puppy has,
    the less likely a vaccine is to work.

    It should be noted that giving vaccine more frequently than every 2 weeks will cause interference between the two vaccines and neither can be expected to be effective. This includes giving vaccines for different infections. Vaccines should be spaced 2-4 weeks apart.

    It is commonly held that puppies need a certain number of vaccines for protection to be achieved (usually either 3 or 4 is the “magic” number). The number of vaccines given has nothing to do with protection. In order for protection to be achieved, vaccine must be given when it can penetrate maternal antibody.


    Combination Vaccines, Multiple Shots--on Page 16 of the 2003 AAHA Guidelines under Immunological Factors Determining Vaccine Safety, it states that: "Although increasing the number of components in a vaccine may be more convenient for the practitioner or owner, the likelihood for adverse effects may increase. Also, interference can occur among the components. Care must be taken not to administer a product containing too many vaccines simultaneously if adverse events are to be avoided and optimal immune responses are sought. "

    The World Small Animal Veterinary Association's 2007 Vaccination Guidelines state on Page 3 that: In situations where, for example, a decision must be made that an individual pet may have to receive only a single core vaccination during its lifetime, the VGG [Vaccination Guidelines Group] would emphasise that this should optimally be given at a time when that animal is most capable of responding immunologically, i.e., at the age of 16 weeks or greater."

    continued below
    Kris L. Christine
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    continued from above

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    Duration of Immunity: The Rabies Vaccine Challenge - Show #185 Animal Talk Radio Show 7/30/08 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/animalt...lenge-Show-186

    Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm

    What Everyone Needs to Know about Canine Vaccines, Dr. Ronald Schultz
    http://www.puliclub.org/CHF/AKC2007C...20Vaccines.htm

    Vaccination: An Overview Dr. Melissa Kennedy, DVM360 http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com....jsp?id=568351

    World Small Animal Veterinary Association 2007 Vaccine Guidelines http://www.wsava.org/SAC.htm Scroll down to Vaccine Guidelines 2007 (PDF)

    The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at http://www.leerburg.com/special_report.htm .

    The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen...s06Revised.pdf .

    Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/

    October 1, 2002 DVM Newsletter article entitled, AVMA, AAHA to Release Vaccine Positions, http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/a...l.jsp?id=35171

    July 1, 2003 DVM Newsletter article entitled, What Do We Tell Our Clients?, Developing thorough plan to educate staff on changing vaccine protocols essential for maintaining solid relationships with clients and ensuring quality care http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/a...l.jsp?id=61696

    July 1, 2003, DVM Newsletter article, Developing Common Sense Strategies for Fiscal Responsibility: Using an interactive template to plan service protocol changes http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/a...l.jsp?id=61694

    Animal Wellness Magazine Article Vol. 8 Issue 6, How Often Does he REALLY Need A Rabies Shot Animal Wellness Magazine - devoted to natural health in animals

    The Rabies Challenge Animal Wise Radio Interview
    Listen to Animal Wise (scroll down to The Rabies Challenge 12/9/07)

    The Vaccine Challenge Animal Talk Naturally Online Radio Show » The Vaccine Challenge - Show #91

    Rabies Shot Killed my Poodle May 28, 2008 Channel 5 News WCVB http://www.thebostonchannel.com:80/n...ss=bos&taf=bos

    US Declared Canine-Rabies Free -- CDC Announces at Inaugural World Rabies Day Symposium CDC Press Release - September 7, 2007

    Rabies Prevention -- United States, 1991 Recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP), Center for Disease Control's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly March 22, 1991 / 40(RR03);1-19 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00041987.htm "A fully vaccinated dog or cat is unlikely to become infected with rabies, although rare cases have been reported (48). In a nationwide study of rabies among dogs and cats in 1988, only one dog and two cats that were vaccinated contracted rabies (49). All three of these animals had received only single doses of vaccine; no documented vaccine failures occurred among dogs or cats that had received two vaccinations. "
    Kris L. Christine
    Founder, Co-Trustee
    The Rabies Challenge Fund
    www.RabiesChallengeFund.org

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    I sure hope people use common sense here. I'd have a bunch of dead Lab pups if I waited until 16 wks to vaccinate. Our local vets have been treating more than their fair share of parvo pups as the result of this kind of thinking.

    In order to get puppies out to socialize and get that critical start on training before they hit 3-4 mos (this is recommended by the AKC, APDT folks and AVSAB--behavioral folks), we NEED our puppies to be properly vaccinated.

    Anne

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    Kris L. Christine's Avatar
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    Dog owners need to assesss their puppy's risk of exposure to disease and choose a vaccine schedule based on that consideration (as well as maternal antibody interference) with your veterinarian's input. For instance, people with puppies in daycare or who go to shows or obedience classes have an entirely different risk of early exposure than someone like me who lives in an isolated rural area with no other houses in sight and whose dogs (puppies) don't go out in public.

    The information is to provide information on why so many combo vaccines are given to puppies in the first few months of life. Bear in mind that these are all the same full-strength vaccines given to adult dogs.
    Kris L. Christine
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    no way in hell i would wait that long. i honestly believe the trend in waiting too long and NOT vaccinating is going to jump up and bite us in the ass.
    Kim

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    Quote Originally Posted by cinderbay View Post
    no way in hell i would wait that long. i honestly believe the trend in waiting too long and NOT vaccinating is going to jump up and bite us in the ass.
    It already is here in WA. I was just at a vet clinic in the dead of winter/cold that told me of a breeder who told their client "absolutely NO vaccinations" on their pup til whatever age. Guess what? Parvo! Another dog (pet shop special) was being released just in front of mine after having been lucky to survive parvo (huge bill). Kris just refuses to listen to any reason. She's had her earfuls for a year or longer on RTF (think Field trial and other high level performance folks as well as vets, whose pups are on pro trucks before most of ours have been potty trained) but still posted this nonsense there too the other day.

    Rural areas are safe? My butt! Strays and even coyotes are spreading parvo. The UPS or meter reader's truck that visits the "dump" of a house down the road runs over a pile of poo, and drives in spreading all the wealth to others. Our local rescues have had nightmares w/ parvo all winter long (I'm donating Neopar to the one group, however, it's often too late-- after the fact). I was told over 15 yrs ago we were not safe from parvo until we got up above the 4000 ft elevation level in the mountains and it would still be questionable if it was a public camp site. I had 2 pups from my very first litter come down w/ parvo at 12-13 wks (this was before we had as good of vaccines as I have now). Tell that to those folks that it's worth the risk.

    Now that said, my 15.5 wk old pup, Envy, went swimming for her first time yesterday. She was at an agility trial last weekend and a (small) dog show at 11 wks old even. No WAY would I take her to a public park and allow that had she not been very well vaccinated against parvo and distemper. She's had Neopar at 5 wks (neopar was developed initially for the puppy mills!), followed by Progard 5 at 7, 10, 13 wks (both are high titer, low passage that DOES override maternal antibodies safely --- Progard 5 was shown to provide full protection at 12 wks btw in challenge studies). I still run a slight risk of lepto (just showing up in one stream locally). We're doing Lepto vac tomorrow and in 3 wks again. This pup, like my others, has logged at least 3000 miles w/ me safely since she was 7 wks, because of my vaccine protocol--- I'm positive of that.

    I've been doing this regime for 6 yrs now, ever since another breeder exposed her 7 wk old pups (you know, those pups that Kris' info says are still to be protected by mom's antibodies?) and brought it home to another *3* wk old litter that was sick w/ in 2 wks as well. 3 litters, 20-some puppies in ICU w/ parvo, 8 died, several had permanent damage.... now tell me what my risks are??? Her vet and a lab breeder/vet put this vaccination program together and ever since, no one has had parvo outbreaks. I couldn't even take my litters to the ACVO's vet clinic (this is where my friend found the parvo) at 7.5 wks for their eye checks let alone my regular vet for well checks, w/o having some protection. My vet gives me full blessings for my protocol and said she'd do the same if she was still breeding.

    Anyhow, as deadly as my vaccine program probably sounds to Kris, I've not had ANY immune issues in my pups, nor have any of the others who use this (who breed alot more than I do!). The vets seeing my puppies in different parts of the state/country are sending glowing reports back to me thru the owners, thanking me for caring so much about puppy diseases.

    So Kris, until you become a breeder (or even a competitor who would understand the need for early training/socialization), you may want to think again what "good" you are really doing here by putting all this propaganda on every site you manage to get into.

    To the rest, yes... weigh your risks. You can have unprotected, unsocialized, and untrained puppies that never develop to their full potentials in life because they've spent their first 4 mos in a bubble, or have well adjusted, successful pups that are protected against deadly preventable diseases. Your choice.

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    I wonder if there are articles perhaps that I could quote for the exact numbers of puppies who died because their owners felt they were doing the right thing not provide vaccinations for their puppies, as well as subsequent articles showing the rate of temperamental and aggression problems from under socializing puppies.

    Oh wait, they are far too numerous to quote.
    'Don't grow up too quickly, lest you forget how much you love the beach.'
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    Dog owners need to assesss their puppy's risk of exposure to disease and choose a vaccine schedule based on that consideration (as well as maternal antibody interference) with a veterinarian's input. For instance, people with puppies in daycare or who go to shows or obedience classes have an entirely different risk of early exposure than someone like me who lives in an isolated rural area with no other houses in sight and whose dogs (puppies) don't go out in public.

    The information is to help explain why so many combo vaccines are given to puppies in the first few months of life. Bear in mind that these puppy shots are all the same full-strength vaccines given to adult dogs and the incidents of vaccinal adverse reactions have "higher risk associated with small size [of dog] and multiple inoculations. "

    In an August 1, 2008 article in DVM360 entitled Vaccination: An Overview http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com...p?id=568351,Dr. Melissa Kennedy states that of the two types of vaccinal adverse reactions: "The first is immediate hypersensitivity. This may be a local or systemic response, and is due to pre-existing antibody to the agent. This is the classic "allergic reaction" to the vaccine and can be life-threatening. The second is a delayed response, requiring days of longer to develop. The vaccine, seen as foreign, elicits a significant inflammatory response and is especially true for adjuvanted vaccines. This response can manifest as a granuloma, or more seriously, a fibrosarcoma ."

    Further, she reports that "The likelihood of adverse reactions in dogs has been found to correlate with the size of the dog and the number of inoculations given, with higher risk associated with small size and multiple inoculations. "
    Kris L. Christine
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    I would say the majority of the people I know (many competitive obedience people) do not vaccinate their dogs. One, a very good friend said her new pup (arriving middle next month) will not get any vaccines. I find it a bit disturbing.....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Belles mom View Post
    I would say the majority of the people I know (many competitive obedience people) do not vaccinate their dogs. One, a very good friend said her new pup (arriving middle next month) will not get any vaccines. I find it a bit disturbing.....
    And it is people like this who put other dogs at risk. Those of us who have dogs at home who are elderly or like in my case elderly and has a poor immune system. Makes me sick.
    Kim

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