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Thread: Any Labs with Arthritis Here?

  1. #11
    javasmom is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hershey123 View Post
    Since I have horses I can tell you MSM does nothing. Our large animal vet also said it is worthless stuff. There are no peer reviewed studies on MSM.

    There are also no long-term safety studies on MSM and the FDA has shut down MSM sellers for the claims made.

    Fish oil does help but Perna is backed by multiples studies over 20 years.

    OP, look for a supplement with Perna. You won't need to use fish oil.
    Your vet probably just agreed with you because you badgered the shit out of him too.

    So....why don't you post the study about the uselessness of MSM that you are referencing?
    Or am I supposed to take "because I said so and my vet said so" as proof of it's uselessness?

  2. #12
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    When Erns was 5 the vets said there was a type of sugery to help. Can't remeber what it is called. Something about taking nerves from the joint to stop the pain. Is this the surgery you are talking about. It wasn't a long term fix and can't remeber why we decided not to do it.

    Each dog is different so need to treat case by case. We do not run with Erns, let him jump or spin around, no long walks or hikes and 30 mins no more walks every day. The idea is to build up the mussle to take the weiht off the joint so he swim as much as he can. The best thing for Erns has been keeping him on the thinner side, and swimming. Being very careful with him, and adequan injections every month have helped. He has green lip mussle and glucosamine, but these don't appear to help. I forgot to buy it then away so he went a month without it and no difference at all. So didn't give for several more months.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hershey123 View Post
    The only dietary supplement that has been shown to substantially help arthritis is Perna. Fish oil does help inflammation but it does not slow the progression. Perna does.
    My vet doesn't agree with this. I have been giving Erns green lip mussle for years and his arthritis and joints have still become progessively worse. We found Synoflex (Synoquin) had better results as it is a more pure form of glucosamine. I think some things work for some dogs (and people) and others not so well.

    Kassa 25/11/01 - 09/02/05 O.S Jaw cancer forever in my heart.
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  3. #13
    Hershey123 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by javasmom View Post
    Your vet probably just agreed with you because you badgered the shit out of him too.

    So....why don't you post the study about the uselessness of MSM that you are referencing?
    Or am I supposed to take "because I said so and my vet said so" as proof of it's uselessness?
    MSM is a fraud. It is also sold as cure for baldness as well as a million other ailments.

    Also, it is made from the garbage of the paper industry, with sulfuric acid.

    You are a very caring person I can tell. I am just trying to give you the facts.

    If those two were mine I would use something with a high level of Perna.

    Perna canaliculus (Green-lipped Mussel) for Pets
    Last edited by Hershey123; 03-17-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  4. #14
    javasmom is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hershey123 View Post
    MSM is a fraud. It is also sold as cure for baldness as well as a million other ailments.

    Also, it is made from the garbage of the paper industry, with sulfuric acid.

    You are a very caring person I can tell. I am just trying to give you the facts.

    If those two were mine I would use something with a high level of Perna.

    Perna canaliculus (Green-lipped Mussel) for Pets
    Like I said, could you please post a study that shows that MSM has no benefit for arthritis?
    Small-scale studies of possible treatments with MSM have been conducted on both animals and humans. These studies of MSM have suggested some benefits, particularly for treatment of osteoarthritis

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    javasmom is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hershey123 View Post
    MSM is a fraud. It is also sold as cure for baldness as well as a million other ailments.

    Also, it is made from the garbage of the paper industry, with sulfuric acid.

    You are a very caring person I can tell. I am just trying to give you the facts.

    If those two were mine I would use something with a high level of Perna.

    Perna canaliculus (Green-lipped Mussel) for Pets


    Funny, here is something on MSM from the very same site you posted the Perna link from.

    "MSM is a natural sulfur-containing compound produced by kelp in the ocean. Sulfur is stored in almost every cell in the body. The highest concentrations are found in joints, hair, skin, and nails. MSM is claimed to be an antioxidant, cell rejuvenator, and joint healer.
    MSM is reported to enhance the structural integrity of connective tissue, and help reduce scar tissue by altering cross-linkages which contribute to scar formation. MSM has been promoted as having powerful anti-inflammatory and pain reducing properties, blocking the pain perception in certain nerve fibers before the pain impulse reaches the brain."

    The Use of Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) in Dogs & Cats

    So, if you choose to believe what they have written about Perna, then you have to believe what they write about MSM, no?

  6. #16
    javasmom is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hershey123 View Post
    MSM is a fraud. It is also sold as cure for baldness as well as a million other ailments.

    Also, it is made from the garbage of the paper industry, with sulfuric acid.

    You are a very caring person I can tell. I am just trying to give you the facts.

    If those two were mine I would use something with a high level of Perna.

    Perna canaliculus (Green-lipped Mussel) for Pets
    You are giving me the "facts" as you believe them. I have seen great anti-inflammatory results and benefits from supplementing with MSM-keep in mind that I don't rely only on MSM, I use it in conjunction with other supplements....and please don't tell me that I am only seeing the results that I want to see. The benefits have been very obvious for Java. You didn't see her before..and you haven't seen her now, so you really can't definitively say that MSM has not benefitted her.

    I love my dogs more than you know...and I do what I believe is best for them.
    You are knowledgeable and full of info...I'm sure I could learn from you, just quit being so abrasive-not everything has to be a battle. You need to realize that we are all experts on our dogs and what works. Stop trying to change everyone's mind on everything and telling us what to do with our dogs. Offer your advice-if we take it, great. If we choose not to, don't take it personal and move on. You can't force people to do what YOU want with OUR dogs.

    Give us the info and let us make our own decision about what is best for OUR dogs.

  7. #17
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    Quote from the link.

    Perna canaliculus, or green-lipped mussel, is an edible shellfish found off the shores of New Zealand. It has been commercially available as a food supplement in the United States since 1975. Perna mussel, was for centuries, a major part of the diet in local populations of New Zealand. The reported incidence of arthritic and rheumatic disorders was extremely low among coastal New Zealanders compared to those living inland.


    Most of N.Z is coastal. Doesn't matter how many we eat, or where we live, anyone can get arthritis.Maybe the people in the studies were also eating Puha.


    We love the income from our exports, but studies done here have so far proven it isn't a cure all that many companies advertise it to be. Every time someone clains it cures cancer or other diseases stocks are depleted in a few hours.

    I am not saying it isn't a great thing, it is and like many other things can help, but to say it is the only thing or advertise it as something it has never been proven to be correct. It is natural, had no side effects unless a shell fish allergy so there is no harm in taking it.

    Is it the cure all it is sometimes claimed to be?

    Kassa 25/11/01 - 09/02/05 O.S Jaw cancer forever in my heart.
    Ernie 25/11/01 adopted May 05
    Sam 11? adopted Nov 06 - 18/12/07 Lyphoma
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  8. #18
    Hershey123 is offline Member
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    Perna has been studied extensively for years and years. Real, peer-reviewed work. MSM has not, so there is nothing for me to post.

    Improvement of Arthritic Signs in Dogs Fed Green-Lipped Mussel (Perna canaliculus)
    http://lyprinoluk.com/pdf/halpern.pdf
    Clinical efficacy and tolerance of an extract of g... [N Z Vet J. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI
    Green-lipped Mussel (Perna canaliculus) safely helps dogs with arthritis

    I am not suggesting a dog with arthritis will start tap dancing, but as far supplements go it is the most effective and the most studied.

    Here is a piece from QuackWatch on MSM:

    Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM)
    Last edited by Hershey123; 03-18-2012 at 12:11 AM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmiekokonut View Post
    Does anyone have or have had a younger lab that has experienced arthritis in the joints? My KoKo is only 4 yrs. old and am wondering if anyone has had this problem and gotten surgery for it?
    I tried to find the info on the surgery the vet suggested for Erns, but can't find it. I would imagine things have changed in the last few years anyway. Did the vet say replacement or fusions or other thing?


    Hershey123 how old was your dog when you gave it Perna, and how long did you give it ? I wonder if the length of time makes a difference and works well at first and not so after a couple of years.
    Also the degree of arthritis or joint issue. Was yours the knee or hip?

    Kassa 25/11/01 - 09/02/05 O.S Jaw cancer forever in my heart.
    Ernie 25/11/01 adopted May 05
    Sam 11? adopted Nov 06 - 18/12/07 Lyphoma
    Tessa. Rescued June 2011.
    Bone Cancer Dogs org.http://www.bonecancerdogs.org/
    http://kassabella.tripod.com/kassabella/
    http://collarsbychris.weebly.com/

  10. #20
    Hershey123 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassabella View Post
    I tried to find the info on the surgery the vet suggested for Erns, but can't find it. I would imagine things have changed in the last few years anyway. Did the vet say replacement or fusions or other thing?


    Hershey123 how old was your dog when you gave it Perna, and how long did you give it ? I wonder if the length of time makes a difference and works well at first and not so after a couple of years.
    Also the degree of arthritis or joint issue. Was yours the knee or hip?
    I give Annamaet Endure to all the dogs age 5 or older. To be honest the only dog that became arthritic was a 19 year old Jack Russell in the last 2 years of her life. My sporting dogs have lived long lives without any serious joint issues. They are very active and trained and always at good weight and breeds or lines really not known for joint issues, including the two Pointing Labs. I did have a bench Lab a few years back that got a little sluggish but he was 14 and I never noticed any pain.

    No supplement can turn back the clock or reverse an injury, but we do the best we can, so I hear you on the fact that efficacy will decline over time. Perna did help my mother's CKCS rather quickly with just generalized pain and stiffness.
    Last edited by Hershey123; 03-18-2012 at 08:53 AM.

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