Pedigree question...ok for a sire & dam to share the same sire?
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Thread: Pedigree question...ok for a sire & dam to share the same sire?

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    MadforLabs is offline Junior Member
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    Default Pedigree question...ok for a sire & dam to share the same sire?

    I'm looking at the pedigree of a planned litter. Many things in order, such as all health clearances (including clear EIC & CNM). Breeder is an AKC Breeder of Merit. Lots of things look good. But the one thing that stands out is that the Sire and Dam of planned litter share the same Sire. I will probably stay away from this one, but I am curious about the prevailing thought on this among breeders. Is it ok to breed half siblings? Or, like with humans, is it not good because it narrows the gene pool and can cause health issues?

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    windycanyon is offline Senior Member
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    It'd better be one sound guy! Not something I'm comfortable with but some do it, obviously.

    WindyCanyon Girls, August 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadforLabs View Post
    I'm looking at the pedigree of a planned litter. Many things in order, such as all health clearances (including clear EIC & CNM). Breeder is an AKC Breeder of Merit. Lots of things look good. But the one thing that stands out is that the Sire and Dam of planned litter share the same Sire. I will probably stay away from this one, but I am curious about the prevailing thought on this among breeders. Is it ok to breed half siblings? Or, like with humans, is it not good because it narrows the gene pool and can cause health issues?
    LOVE this type of discussion!! AND.. wow you found it.. most of course do not know how to read a pedigree.

    There are 3 types of breedings
    Out Cross: nothing in common with the sire and dam
    In Breeding... FULL brother/sister, mother/son, father/daughter
    Line Breeding: whereby the dogs in the pedigree do have other dogs found in the pedigree in common.

    The single closest LINE breeding would be 1/2 siblings. Very experienced breeders not just in Labradors but across the board do this type of breeding. A breeder is looking to move forward with traits found in the dog/bitch that is being line bred on. The reason it takes an experienced breeder is because NO pedigree is clean and the breeder better know what the "devils" are when doing this type of breeding. Other close line breedings (but not as close) would be grandmother/grandson, grandfather/grand daughter, aunt/nephew, uncle/neice and so forth....

    Breeders will have different opinions on line breedings. Some will consider 1/2 siblings too close, others will not. Some will consider grandfather/granddaughter too close and that's actually one of the most common line breedings there is.

    To be candid, I have very successfully done 1/2 siblings. I am so glad I asked my mentors about this and thought out of the box. However, every single breeder is allowed to have whatever feelings they have and I know some on this forum will probably think this is way too close. Breeders all do things a bit differently and what they feel comfortable with. (BTW the puppy families on this litter knew exactly what I was doing... they were educated on what it was... that's another thing.. IF a breeder is going to do that, they owe the puppy families to explain what it is.)

    Danika & Eva

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    Just to add one more thing, it's so normal for all of us, breeders and puppy families alike to think of this type of question and breeding in human terms. It is not hardly the same as humans. Thoughts on human vs canine with this need to be kept in check. However.... again... anyone that is going to do this needs to know what is in that pedigree.. "no pedigree is clean"

    Danika & Eva

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    It's pretty close for my comfort level, but it depends on what the rest of the pedigree would look like also. If the rest of the pedigree is outcrossing, I might consider it, but I'd still be leery. That dog in common better be darn near perfect and not throw anything I'm not ready to introduce into my lines.
    Laura





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    MadforLabs is offline Junior Member
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    Learning about the three types of breedings is really interesting. I spent some time looking at some more pedigrees, just trying to get more familiar, and, wow was it an eye-opener. I was looking at pedigrees of field-bred labs. There were, according to Susan's description, a lot of in-line breedings...though not much 1/2 sibling to 1/2 sibling, more grandsire to daughter. And it starts to get complicated. For example, I found one where the dam's grandsire and greatgrandsire were the same. Then I looked at the sire's pedigree and find the same grand sire (as the dam's) in there, too. It starts to get complicated, but it certainly is interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadforLabs View Post
    Learning about the three types of breedings is really interesting. I spent some time looking at some more pedigrees, just trying to get more familiar, and, wow was it an eye-opener. I was looking at pedigrees of field-bred labs. There were, according to Susan's description, a lot of in-line breedings...though not much 1/2 sibling to 1/2 sibling, more grandsire to daughter. And it starts to get complicated. For example, I found one where the dam's grandsire and greatgrandsire were the same. Then I looked at the sire's pedigree and find the same grand sire (as the dam's) in there, too. It starts to get complicated, but it certainly is interesting.
    What you're talking about now is linebreeding. It's still a form of inbreeding, but not as close as brother/sister, mother/son, father/daughter.
    Laura





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