Warning... extreme newbie question(s)... :)

**henrysmom** · 12-09-2007, 10:09 PM

Okay, so I'm trying to do some reading up on all of this. I think it might be fun to start doing some field work with Henry, it'll be a nice change from obedience and rally for him.

So, what is the difference between the working certificate titles (WC, WCI, WCX) and the hunt test titles (JH, SH, MH, GMH)? I'm confused. ???

There's a lab breeder in our area who does training for field work... we'll be starting classes with her in the spring, but until then, is there anything I can do with Henry in the meantime? He has to deliver to hand, correct? How best to teach this?

Thanks, in advance!

**Tatyana** · 12-10-2007, 12:00 AM

There's a lab breeder in our area who does training for field work

This is a very broad statement. What does she mean by "field?" Beware of people advertising to be professional trainers. All it takes to be a "pro" is someone willing to pay money. "Pro" does not always equals quality. Has Henry been force fetched? Are you going to/willing to force fetch him? If not, you need to find a trainer who will work with you w/o force program. That said, it's unlikely that you'll be able to advance past working certificates and JH w/o force foundation.

WC requirements from LRC Inc. are one land mark at 50 yards in light cover and two consecutive water marks (at unspecified distance). No steadiness is required. LRCP specifies in addition that gunners are not retired and 35-50 yards for water marks.

WCX requirements for LRCP state that it must be a land double at 50-75 yards in light to moderate cover and a water double with an honor at 40-60 yards. Gunners don't retire. Steadiness is required.

Check out this link for more details: http://www.lrcp.com/standing_rules.shtml. As you can see, WC and WCX are marking tests. They do not involve blinds and handling. WCI (Working Certificate Intermediate) I think is offered in Canada only.

Junior Hunter from my memory has four single marks split into two series. Usually, you do your land series in one location and then move for the water series. But I've seen land and water mixed up because of hot weather in local tests. Distances can be up to 100 yards and often are over 60 yards. I don't remember if the gunners have to retire or not (if they retire, it makes it harder for the dog). JH can be a crapshoot because some judges believe it should be easy to get people excited about hunt tests and get them to continue and then other judges think that it should be harder to really eliminate the dogs that have no desire.

SH has double marks and blinds and MH has triple marks and blinds. I think it is really a huge step from WC/WCX/JH to SH level because of the blinds and handling.

**tkpaul** · 12-10-2007, 10:57 AM

Tatyana has it right. The only thing I would add is look at UKC Hunting Retriever Club (HRC) hunt tests. They have three levels of tests Started, Seasoned and Finished. Started test has two land and two water retrieves delivered to the area of handler. Dog does not have to be steady. Seasoned has a land double and blind and water double and blind with either a diversion or walkup. Finished test is a triple on land and a triple on water with blinds in both location and diversions. Seasoned and Finished have to deliver to hand.

Also look into the local clubs of the HRC. They can give you help to get you started.

http://www.huntingretrieverclub.org/

Good luck.

**Trickster** · 12-10-2007, 11:23 AM

What kind of trainer are you going to, Felicia?

As Tatyana said, its important that you use the 'right' kind of trainer in accordance to what you want to achieve. For example, if you were seriously interested in competing and working your dog for real, you would want to go to a professional and follow a particular training program from day one. Obviously in the USA (and Canada I assume?) they use force fetch, collar condition, etc. On the other hand, if you wanted to field train purely for fun, you would probably not need to force fetch or apply the 'higher' levels of training. In which case you would be looking for a different type of trainer all together. Group classes are often run for people who want to train for fun or for basic hunt/working tests.

**henrysmom** · 12-10-2007, 12:33 PM

Thanks everyone, for your responses (and patience with newbie questions!)!

I should add that I'm looking to do this primarily for fun, I seriously doubt I will take Henry past the WC/JH level. I'm curious to see how he'll do with this, and I think it would be a nice change of pace for both of us after our intensive year of competitive obedience training!

The woman who offers field training classes (I'm not even sure if I'm using the right words!) is in our obedience class so I'll ask her for more details on Thursday. She shows her labs in conformation, obedience and has put WC, WCI, WCX, JH titles on her dogs. I'll be sure to pick her brain a bit more this week!

Thanks again!

**GulfCoast** · 12-10-2007, 03:02 PM

You are about to give your dog a great gift! Most of them get totally CRANKED for birds. You may actually meet your real dog for the first time! ;D

**lcspt** · 12-22-2007, 08:42 PM

I started training Kona with others that were competing or training for hunt tests. The person who introduced me to all of this fun is my friend and co-instructor with standard poodles. I will be working both of my dogs with a friend in the spring who is a hunt test judge and just put a MH on her dog. Kona has been force fetch trained and I will train Bo this winter also. It's alot of fun!! I have 3 ducks in the freezer to train with in the spring.

**georgie** · 12-23-2007, 05:22 PM

I think you & Henry will enjoy doing that. Good luck.

**kaznalf** · 12-29-2007, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by henrysmom

He has to deliver to hand, correct? How best to teach this?

Thanks, in advance!

Alfie is having gundog classes at moment. He has been taught to "hold" and "give"

We used a dunbell (sp?) it teaches the dog to hold in the middle also not chew at the object. Give the dog the toy using you right hand only then say give and take with both hands and reward.

**labnpug** · 01-01-2008, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by kaznalf

Originally Posted by henrysmom

He has to deliver to hand, correct? How best to teach this?

Thanks, in advance!

Alfie is having gundog classes at moment. He has been taught to "hold" and "give"

We used a dunbell (sp?) it teaches the dog to hold in the middle also not chew at the object. Give the dog the toy using you right hand only then say give and take with both hands and reward.

If you have never force fetched a dog I would highly recommend you wait until you can work with someone experienced. Otherwise you may need to retrain your dog. I have force fetched dogs on my own but now I usually send them off to my field trainer as he can work with them daily (usually twice daily is his routine). I miss getting out in the field and it seems like forever until I will be able to with 20 in. of snow and 10 degree temps right now....sigh....however my 1 year old, Zamboni is at my trainer's now so hopefully we'll be ready for spring hunt tests.
Two of my girls also stayed with him over the holidays while I went away to warm up and he took them both hunting/guiding which was great for them.
Deb H.
www.dunnsmarshlabs.com