Puppy structure critique

[ThreeTs]

This is a puppy from the breeder that I'm probably going to buy from. Can't be sure yet that it is the one I'll get, but its the only yellow, which is what I wanted, and the breeder probably won't keep a male.

The parents are Am. Ch's, sire is Belgairn Tom Jones, the dam is somewhat of specialty type dog, although I think her points were from all-breed, she also has agility and obedience titles.

The goal is a dog that can do conformation and obedience/agility, so I am very concerned about having a well-made front and rear and nice balance. Have been trying to look at him from the perspective of pat hastings' book, but I haven't got any experience at evaluating puppies.

Of course the breeder will be evaluating the litter again at 8 weeks, but I would love some outside constructive opinions on him now, this is his 6 week old photo.

[Luvmydog2much]

For six weeks old, he looks pretty good. I see a soft topline, otherwise looks cute.

[ThreeTs]

For six weeks old, he looks pretty good. I see a soft topline, otherwise looks cute.

What does "soft topline" mean, does it refer to an overall downward slope from shoulders to tail or something else?

Also, thanks for the reply.

[Canyon Labradors]

Melissa, is that a soft topline? I am not arguing, I am just asking. Something about the big slope from the head to the tail doesn't sit right, and I wouldn't know how to explain it to someone. My thought was that the appearance was maybe due to a short neck.

But granted 6 week photos might not be the best time to evaluate this pup. I'd love to see a 7 and 8 week shot later on.

[ThreeTs]

I wasn't sure about the slope either, only two in the litter have a more level topline at this time, they are the smallest so maybe they are just not at the same stage in development?

Here is one of the smaller puppies, with a more level back. He has no pigment so not a show contender, although I like how he is built, he seems like a more moderate-build Lab and has balance and good angles, I think so anyway. Am I totally off on thinking this?



On a related note, are non-pigmented puppies never kept as breeding stock? It seems to me that a breeder would lose out if the best puppy they ever bred was spayed just because it was a yellow with two choc genes. Maybe it can't be shown, but if it was obviously a superior specimen in other ways why not just make sure to breed it to a dog that does not carry chocolate?

[nicole]

I prefer the first puppy to this last one, but would like to seem them in another week. As far as keeping a chocolate pigmented yellow as possible breeding stock, it would depend on the breeder...most of us keep dogs to do more than breed them. By keeping a dog that is a DQ in the breed ring, that takes that venue away from you right from the get-go. I also don't know anyone who would be knocking down a door to breed to a dudley stud dog, so unless you can use him on your own bitches, it's kind of a waste. This is why most will avoid producing dudley pups.

A word of advice- if you're serious about getting the nicest puppy possible to do both conformation and performance events, focus more on structure, less on color.

[labby]

It might be the angle the picture was taken of the first puppy, but it looks very upright in the shoulders.

[ThreeTs]

Well, there might be a chocolate male available from the litter also, but it seems to me that his shoulder is more upright than the yellow one anyway, so I don't think he is better. It is entirely possible that neither will be suitable.

Just to be clear, the breeder did not do the taboo cross of chocolate to a yellow, the dam was black.

Also, I wasn't talking specifically about that dudley puppy being the best, just a hypothetical question.

Anyway, here is one of the choc males, any comments on him?

[Canyon Labradors]

Granted I am a sucker for chocolate, but he just appears more balanced overall to me. Also more square. He was just more visually appealing to me.

Although in comparison now, the first pup's rear looks too stretched out which would change the whole picture. And the second, I could be totally wrong, and I tried turning the picture so the table was straight, but the front end, the legs appear too short.

When you mentioned Tommey was the dad, I looked him up and figured Mom was either By or Byc and since the other boy is NBP, mom's got to be Byc since Tommey's Cy.

Admittedly, I am still a novice and had a friend who breeds and judges pick out my keeps from Grace's litter because I didn't trust my own judgement having fallen for each of them. But just based on the 3 photos and nothing else to go on, I like the chocolate the best.

[patm]

They all look like pretty nice puppies - maybe not show quality, but very nice. The first one is stretched out more, which might affect the look of his topline, but not so much the lay of the shoulder.